Did Harry Love Sally? - Case Study of a Dysfunctional Relationship | Video Essay (Director Project)

I'm 8 minutes in and I don't think I can get through this

THANK YOU! Along with “Love Actually” this is a movie I hated that everyone else seemed to worship. Billy Crystal is a condescending jerk and not nearly attractive enough to be the lady killer he’s supposed to be.
Sally’s finicky, very specific preferences are not a charming quirk specific to her. Who doesn’t know someone who has to micromanage just like that?
My problem with the orgasm scene is that it’s totally out of character for Sally.

I saw the movie and enjoyed it, but then I don't think rom coms are realistic representations or formulas for relationships. They are more fantasy than reality.

The fake orgasm scene in the movie was so profound and shocking and amazing because at that time open conversations about sexuality between males and females was probably.. mostly unheard of. Not our generation for sure 😉 further making their friendship even more of a special bond and situation. These two individuals could have open honest conversations about things that just weren't being talked about at the time amongst men and women. Right now we live in the generation of overuse and porn and technology... this was definitely another time and almost another world. Shamefully I still love this scene in the movie. 😁

This is a generational Gap issue I think. Watching my parents, and growing up in the 90s, people just behaved differently 40+ years ago. There is more of the assumed idea of "I am what you see and that's what you get" mentality. Defining true love as a person that would love you and your flaws unconditionally no matter what. It's crazy to see how us as a society has changed in just my lifetime. I often go back to watch movies that I had deemed flawlessly beautiful and romantic... and think how toxic or crazy they actually were in reality. But! I still love the movie "When Harry met Sally". 😅😊

The movie is well written. If it's not the type of relationship that people want, it's the type of idealistic friendship. The dream that both can become friends and then fall in love is a great dream. It's unrealistic but it's something people kind of want. It's what they each end up recognizing it in their lives. It's funny though a little manipulative. There are things in the story that are a bit forced. They push the audience from a particular plot point toward another. On the "O" scene, the big laugh from Rob Reiner's Mom "I'll have what she's had" is funny but a little bit of a cheap gag. It's almost a throwback to an old joke. Realistically Ryan behavior in the scene if it were real would likely get her kicked out of the diner, or result in someone calling the police on her for perceived inappropriate lewd behavior. Responses would vary depending on the city. Structurally the scene needs to be funny. It's enough to make some audiences uncomfortable if there wasn't a laugh. As a guy, I totally agree about men's behavior. Carrie Fisher was a very talented actress and writer. I think there have been two times I had female friends who felt comfortable about talking about their relationships with men around (because they trusted me, or I was considered only a friend, or worst case scenario they totally were ignoring me?) I can say when women talk about men and they are in a group it's quite different then when men talk about women. Having heard both it's a little disheartening. It helps that both characters are attractive. I always thought it was time that helped changed their minds. Ryan makes a comment that if they get together when they are old and alone that they should get together for a date. At that point it's clear she's open to the idea of a romance but isn't treating as a real possibility. While I think that's accurate about their "love" the conversations and active listening show a lot of care and concern for each other. I kind of feel that "You have mail" shares some of the same issues. Okay, the nursing home gag made me laugh out loud. I kind of feel their reactions in their fight after sleeping together felt accurate. Agreed. It is a movie about a (false) ideal. It's a very flawed and unrealistic ideal. I think some of the argument is out of a need to "test" the validity of their relationship. To make sure it's a real thing that can continue to exist no matter what happens. It is a very manipulative film that expertly moves it's audience. It ends on a sweet and unrealistic ideal. Technically almost every movie falls to that argument. I think it's an entertaining film.

Wow, this one was the analysis I had been looking for!

They definitely have chemistry, I missed it the first several times I watched it, but it’s there. It’s subtle and slowly grows.

I agreed with your take!! I just want to add that love isn’t perfect.

Even though they had their little fights and misunderstandings, that is what brought them together at the end of the day.

I hate Harry, he's too obsessed with sex and women, he's vulgar and can get very angry, and he's unattractive. He's not funny. So, even if I love Nora Ephron and Meg Ryan, I can't stand this movie haha

ok soooooo.... what if it's a rom com???? and it's fiction???? it's just a story.... it's cute.........

They never gave me the impression that they could work as a couple. And I wasn't convinced so much of their friendship either. I found the constant bickering off-putting. The romance part of this romcom didn't work for me (but then many romcoms promote screwed up beliefs about romance). The comedy though ranges from good to exceptional.

But Harry is a way much more toxic than Sally, especially when it comes to treating each other

I think the whole point is that they are both flawed but sometimes two imperfect halves can make a whole. The song it had to be you talks about her imperfections.
There is a beautiful line in how to make an American Quilt:
'Young lovers seek perfection. Old lovers learn the art of sewing shreds together and of seeing beauty in a multiplicity of patches."

I think you have a point about his listing of Sally quirks in the end that are shallow. However, I do think you missed Harry's character arc from his original theses of women and men not being able to be friends. He believed this to his core so much that when he slept with Sally he panicked because he feared it would be the end of the one and only friendship he had with a woman.

When he was talking his friend Jess at the football game about his divorce, Jess mentioned that infidelity is a symptom of a deeper issue with the marriage. Given this detail in that conversation, Helen's problem with Harry is what she likely found in Ira; companionship.

Also, given Sally's initial smiles after the sexual encounter with Harry, she was happy until Harry showed coldness and then she withdrew in shame and embarrassment. Harry was unable to talk or even articulate his feelings properly which caused misunderstandings and led to Sally's deeper hurt and feelings of rejection.

This film is not supposed to be a blueprint for love. It's a good bad example of how sometimes in relationships men and women misunderstand one another and the importance of communication and true intimacy.

Agree 100%. This movie depicts everything you should AVOID if you want to have a functional healthy loving relationship.

The idea of people basing what their lives should be like off of movies is terrifying to me. So many people have these idealised partners and experiences that can never live up to their expectations and never will and yet they continue to close themselves off, raise their standards and expect perfection.
It’s embarrassing.

A lot of your arguments are of the "But, acctually....." pipe pointing kind. You come off as pretty pretentious.

Wow, the new generation, she’ll grow out of it.

I love this film, but I do agree that if we practiced what rom coms teach us. The reality might be different. For example, in Say Anything, also from 1989. The character of Lloyd played by John Cusack is playing a boombox, while standing on the lawn of the Ione Sky character to win her back. This is considered to be a wonderful romantic gesture. I agree, but in reality, it can also result in a restraining order:) I do love the orgasm scene in When Harry Met Sally, because it’s so New York. The reaction in the middle of Katz Deli in Manhattan, is probably what would have happened at that time, right down to the woman played by Rob Reiner’s mother, saying I’ll have what she’s having:)

Does she actually hate him? sure she says she does but really she just disliked disagreeing with him. My best friend and I when we first met would hold open arguments about the stupidest stuff. The point isn’t the disagreement, it’s the openness and honesty. It’s literally a foundation of any relationship. On top of that Harry actually does chnage throughout the movie, he wouldn’t be so immature as to tout the same stuff at the end of the movie.

I think a lot of your critiques are just to take the comedy out of this romantic-comedy? The tone is light on purpose, we're not getting all those deep relationship building conversations, because they're heavy and complicated. I'm not saying this is the best example out of a well balanced romantic comedy out there, Rye Lane does a much better job IMO, I do still think it's extremely good at what it does, especially considering the era it comes from.

There's better ways to show interested in a dude like wink at him from across the room or strike up a conversation!
Hell if you stand by a guy at a bar he might talk to you if he's confident and single. when Harry met Sally is entertaining and it breaks the conventions of a romantic comedy but I do not recommend being friends with a girl till she falls in love with you because you're just in the friend zone. could work occasionally if both people genuinely just want to be friends but if you're being friends with somebody to win them over that's not going to work because being nice to somebody does not make them attracted to you.

I'd be interested in seeing your take on Annie Hall

As representatives of The Man and The Woman, they’re terrible, and I dislike that read of the movie. But just taken as individual weird people, I think they work. As you said, sure, they’re selfish and flawed and weird. Sally is a uptight and demanding, Harry is a condescending slut, etc. They also challenge each other, comfort each other, and get a big kick out of each other. You want to see sparks flying, “chemistry” (what people mean when two pretty and charismatic actors seem clearly into each other), and maybe that is lacking here a little. But what we see instead in abundance is real fondness—they talk to each other on the phone as they fall asleep, they sing karaoke in a store, they put up decorations together, they make each other laugh, they look out for each other when they’re hurting and they apologize when they see that they’ve hurt the other or behaved badly in some way.

And they do grow and change, and change their opinions. You show the scene where Harry yells at his friend about the furniture, and comment that this shows that the movie thinks men can’t control their emotions. I think it’s worth pointing out a few things here. First, that isn’t typical behavior for Harry, and everyone present in the scene is surprised—does he yell like that at any other point in the movie? Even as he’s yelling he says “I was being polite,” referencing how he was in fact controlling his emotions just moments prior. And then just moments later, after talking to Sally about why he is so emotionally fragile at that particular moment (hey he’s got some self awareness and emotional intelligence), they both lose their tempers and then they both recognize that, recognize that the argument is completely pointless, and stop and hug (he even says sorry first). I think they are just genuinely good at reading each other and making each other feel safe and happy, and I think that’s what people like about them as a couple.

I think maybe you just didn’t enjoy the characters so much that you can’t understand them liking each other. Adding heavy backstory doesn’t necessarily make for better characters. Some people just have fears and quirks just because. And it wouldn’t fit with the blithe tone of that scene. Also, we’re SUPPOSED to think Harry is a bit narcissistic and pretentious.

“Friends who gave each other the space to unapologetically be themselves.” Oh, so you DO get it. This is… the core of a relationship. Yes, even (especially?) romantic ones.


“Real love is wanting to communicate and work through issues.” But they do? They just fuck up first. But then they work through it. People make mistakes. People have emotional hang ups and fears. I think the movie is optimistic about people being able to learn from mistakes and work past conflicts.

Not liking his speech because he lists a few of her little quirks and you think that’s like an exhaustive list of the actual reasons he’s attracted to her… I think his point is clear: he notices everything about her and is fond of it all, thinks her quirks and particularities are endearing because it’s Her, she could be doing or saying any dumb shit and he gets heart eyes, she’s a familiar and cherished part of his life and he wants her to know that and be in it always.

Sidenote: why do you keep showing scenes from 300 Days of Summer when talking about real love? Do you think that that depicts a healthier relationship?

I do think you make a lot of valid points in the last 10 minutes, re the points where the relationship gets into trouble, and the “the sexes are different” flaw.

I don’t see their story as a blueprint for a healthy relationship, but as a hopeful depiction of flawed people who love each other working towards one, maybe in spite of themselves.

P.S. I don’t think the fake orgasm scene is meant to be taken as seriously or literally as you did. It’s just A Bit.

Any Romance movies that you love? I want to find new movies. Really good video btw!!! You did a good job. I like the what is love part.

Why cant your generation chill the fuck out you have to critique fukn everything it's sad and funny # 90s teen gen x

I disagree with your analysis. People can fall in love with their friend. I feel like you are the one who has unrealistic expectations in regards to falling in love.

😯😯😯😯

This is just a terrible commentary.

Huh?😂 No! Bad analysis!😅 You need to some psychotherapy classes!😮

The issue with When Harry Met Sally... is that they did not do a good enough job on the shift from friends to relationships (particularly from Harry being unable to attach himself emotionally, then jumping into a huge relationship). The other issues you bring up as criticisms here are against movies in general. Do you think Chris Evans can actually hold back a helicopter? You don't watch movies to learn fighting either, or even how to adventure. That's because real life is much more immense than what a 90 min movie is able to portray. The question is the ideal or the goal, is that worthy of it?

Movies being "unrealistic" is kind of the point... Reality can be even shallower than what the movies depict, but also deeper than anything. And a lot of stuff you complain IS how people act. They don't say what they feel in fear of being vulnerable, they will lie to themselves about what they truly want. Real people are imperfect.

The film is perfect.

Every point in this video is wrong and ineffective.

Nora Ephron herself said the story is unrealistic. She said people constantly came up to her saying they had Harry & Sally situation going. She had to break it to them that it probably isn't going to work out.

That said, it obviously is my favourite romcom of all time. :)

ohhhh shiirtt i assumed your bi

In my opinion, the tiny details he lists about her is a form of everyday love. I think it wasn't until I was 26, that I could see from the little things, from just one afternoon visit, that my parents still love each other. Just my opinion.

Literally no one who likes this movie is arguing that Harry and Sally are good people, or that the orgasm scene would happen in real life.

when I watched this movie, my idea was that it was refreshing in its mundanity as opposed to the hyper exaggerated cliches of “love at first sight” or “forbidden romance”, however I also thought it was a movie not made for emotionally intelligent couples. To me, Harry and Sally are the rose colored glasses embodiment of the older philosophy of “love takes work”. Harry and Sally don’t innately get along, they fight and have very polarizing moral principles, yet due to convenience, shared physical attraction, and “acceptance”, they decide to be together. It’s not an unconditional relationship that we see as healthy nowadays, with open communication and collaborative problem solving, it’s the practice of “settling” seen from an outside perspective as they aren’t noticeably happy together, but not noticeably miserable either. I don’t see a future with them evolving and really growing as people, but, like Harry states near the end, I see them learning to “love” each other’s faults in the way that you “love” a bad apartment. It’s dingy, stressful, and has a multitude of problems that will take a lot of time and money to fix, yet you “love” it because it’s familiar. This isn’t a movie with a message of love out of acceptance of intimacy, but love with an exception of intimacy as a form of acceptance.

I disagree

Her analysis proves that Harry Met Sally is still relevant today

Looking at it that way, I want to see the movie now in this frame of mind.

Good analysis and FUNNY. Thank you. Clever

Not a perspective I can get behind, but interesting nonetheless.

I think the whole reason people love this movie is every reason that you don’t like it. It’s not a classic, cliché romcom.

This is really good! I want to see more realistic movies