When Children Kill: Society's Impossible Dilemma

Come on Simon, there's a lot more to the Jamie Bulger case. One of the killers - Jon Venebles - was re-incarcerated within a few years of release for posessing of extreme child abuse images.

I cannot believe the James Bulger killers are out! They were so incredibly, joyfully cruel.
Edit: Venables re-offended twice...

I bet that Simon has no idea that his video on marie battle on the cashier cream, and I like this one of the most popular

I've met adults with ASPD, one who could be defined as sociopathic (but largely due to being conditioned to be so by a narcissistic parent) and one a definitive psychopath (like cruelty to people and animals, unable to experience normal emotions, especially things like love and joy, extreme possessiveness and controlling behaviours, massively overblown sense of self importance, only ever excited or aroused by causing harm, etc. He was very aware of what he was, not diagnosed mind but proud of it (and proud of all the crimes he got away with - some of which include kidnapping his kids from his first wife multiple times, making her send him money to return them after his contact time, things like that. And one time he punished his second wife by forcing her to sit in the front seat of the car, then putting their 1&3yr olds in the backseat with no car seats n no seatbelts, then deliberately driving fast and recklessly, including zigzags to make the babies fall around the back seat, giving them concussions, then when police pulled him over and saw the kids he proudly said he just talked to the cop for a few minutes, don't know what he said, but the cop then permitted him to carry on so long as he stopped speeding- this is in the UK btw and the story was verified by the missus after she fled him with their kids, she still has nightmares about it, not understanding why the police didn't help them), but not free from delusional thinking - kept trying to convince me he was chosen by god to lead people cos god had made him unburdened by human emotions, didn't like it when I said if you were chosen by god then you'd not get aroused by hurting folk/animals).

But non of them scared me more than a five year old I nannied for, years ago now, who showed early signs of ASPD, specifically towards the psychopathic end of the ASPD spectrum. I'll never forget, my fist day with him, when he hurt his younger sibling, tried acting all innocent and I said "that act doesn't fool me" and he then blinked at me, like you could see the cogs turning in his mind, then started crying and fell to the floor kicking. I said "neither does that act." And he stopped crying immediately, sat up, tilted his head as he looked me in the eye, clearly trying to sus me out, and after a few moments said "you're not like most adults are you?"

While I worked there I'd try and teach him to behave more appropriately (specifically, most of our conversations were me trying to teach him why he should bother with trying to pick good behaviour, when he gets away with the bad behaviour most of the time, me being his only exception so far, and it's way more fun to just do what he enjoys - and this was 5yr old, talked like a ten yr old when he wasn't acting the sweet innocent lad), but while he stopped the hurting others when I was around, it was only when he was under my supervision, when I wasn't around he was his normal self hurting other animals and kids and acting all innocent or crying if he got caught. Thing was he was already very good at getting away with hurting others, like animals, other kids at school or in the family would suspicious injuries around him that the adults thought were his doing but couldn't prove, so he seldom got caught (the other kids wouldn't admit he wasnhurting them either, not even his tweenage cousin, they were scared of him, at age five). And while alot of the adults would admit they found him creepy and uncomfortable to be around, non of them would commit to admitting that in writing, to get this kid a psychologist assessment. Which I get, as a childcare professional, you're basically trained that nurture trumps nature, which is true most of the time. But there's a sense of "giving up" on a kid if you admit their nature is messed up.

I had to leave that job cos he was posing a risk to my children and no matter what research or evidence I presented his mum with, she refused point blank to talk him to a psychologist. I told her when I left that I understand it's hard to accept your kid is a danger to others but you're doing him no favours by staying in denial, and you're not safeguarding your youngest, one day he'll injure his sibling or a school kid enough that socia get involved, best she get him support and try to prevent things getting worse. I also told her that I'm going to inform social myself that I believe this child has the protential to be a real risk to his future classmates and sibling, without the proper therapeutic support, that it's not due to lack of nurture cos there is alot of love in their family, his mum was tying herself in knots trying to juggle everything, she loved both her boys deeply and their needs were all met, she wasn't neglecting or abusing them, but that I wanted my observations of her eldest on record incase when he's older, if he does hurt someone seriously or if mum does decide to seek professional support, then there's evidence of this being recognised in early youth on the social systems records, which will hopefully help speed up the seeking help process up for them, hopefully

A life for a life

I love you simon but i dread watching this episode. So sad.

If children can't have sex how can they fully understand the consequences of murder? Rehabilitation should be always the answer . Observation and Rehabilitation

Did their dad go after terrorists preditors and pedophiles and the police were corrupt so they turned around and killed people for fucking around.

It is a tough question

Reupload? Using the c word is dangy

The unfortunate reality of the situation is this
Some kids are naturally bad, some are nurtured into being bad, and some are orchestrated or cornered into doing bad
From there rehabilitation and providing help where needed are the best options but unfortunately there are some who can not be rehabilitated, thus need to be kept behind bars for everyone else’s safety

Some kids are just born bad no matter what, that's why I laugh when people claim children are innocent lol. No.

I was a violent child, I would have uncontrollable rage fits and often hurt other kids during them. I look back and wonder why I was like that, and I am grateful that I am now very much the opposite. Kids emotions are enhanced massively compared an adults, so it's important to try and maintain peace and calmness when around them and communicating with them. I witnessed a lot of arguments in the house and I wonder is this the reason for my foul temper as a child.

"I don't like Mondays"

It would be interesting for a casual criminalist episode on the Jamie bulger case. It's one case that sticks with me especially looking at how one ended up re-offending

Children are sweet and innocent?Pls , my experience from elementary school to high school says otherwise. Better work a 9 to 5 job for the rest of my life than going back to these times

Truth in the Bible.

God told Noah...for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth... (Genesis 8:21b)

If we are all honest, this is true from our youth up.

The only antidote is found in the Savior- the Lord Jesus Christ. (John 3:16)

There is no one who does good. (Psalm 53:1b cf. Romans 3:10-18)

I have more intimate knowledge in this area and I wanted to add some facts about kids who are known risks to others - There is NOT support, placements, facilities, etc. in the US for kids whom mental health professionals KNOW and have DIAGNOSED with issues around hurting others and finding help for this is extremely hard!!! Many adolescent and pediatric facilities accept kids with depression, anxiety, ADHD, ptsd, etc., but kids who knowingly harm other kids and adults makes it incredibly hard to find placement. A case that comes to mind is where a pediatric client under the age of 12 was released from a mental health facility and the parents did everything they were supposed to - locked up all sharps, no guns, no knives, no lighters, etc - and the child broke into the neighbors home to find "sharps". Our mental health system struggles to help these kids BEFORE a crime is committed.
The issue of life vs rehabilitation is hard to answer due to the question of each situation being a nuanced situation. Some kids act this way due to more nature vs nurture and rehab will not fix what this person's brain was born to do. Other cases are very nurture based and the child is in an environment where abuse has occured, they have witnessed violence and acts of violence, and if the child had grown up in a healthy home things would have likely been incredibly different. I think far more emphasis should be put into rehabilitation for these cases, but it is costly, we don't have enough mental health professionals to do this, and we don't have enough trained in this area to do this. Then we need to figure out which is the nature vs nurture cases and this is not always so simple. A psych eval can only do so much.
The law is also incredibly black and white where sentences are laid out for crimes and specific numbers are used such as age 18 to be a legal adult. Some kids I work with are chronologically 16 yrs old and emotionally about 6 yrs old because that is when the abuse started and they stagnated on their development emotionally. I think you can see how you may expect a 16 yr old to understand something better, but the reality is that this 16 yr old is emotionally about 6 yrs old and fragile as a 6 yr old and doesn't understand so going by a black and white age can put kids into having consequences for something that they don't fully grasp. This is the issue I have run into with the law in juvenile courts. The law is black and white and unforgiving about the circumstances of the child as we base everything on chronological age with black and white thinking when things are significantly more GREY in this area and Simon could make a much longer video about this.
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Think of your friends in middle and high school. Some of you caught on to concepts, social cues, emotional development, dating, responsibility, etc. much faster than your friends. This was likely in fairly healthy homes and kids develop at different rates so why does he law hold everyone to the exact same standard that is so cut and dry in black and white? What did you do as a kid that was a major mistake and wrecked your parents/neighbors/uncles car/living room/important item, but you are not spending the rest of your life paying for it?! Did you ever squeeze the hamster too hard because you didn't know better? Did that make you a bad person?

There’s a point in which we need to consider the safety and wellbeing of others rather than the freedom of someone is likely to cause harm. The motive for abuse and murder means nothing to the person who suffers at their hands.

lord of the flies

As a child who could have been diagnosed at a very young age with a mental health issue, I really think the average member of the public doesn't understand childhood trauma, and how the cycle of violence churns out more violence.

I also think that to combat child caused violence, we need to work on domestic violence and intimate partner violence. These two highly linked types of violence could reduce a whole lot of violence in the world. Not just in children, but a lot of adult offenders too.

All the causes of DV/IPV are varied, so it would require serious effort, but reducing these kinds of violence including their root causes would do a tremendous amound of good. Including the economy, for those who will whinge about cost (Australia alone would save many millions a year for the economy if it could eliminate DV/IPV).

It does sounds idealistic, but also as a victim of childhood DV and adult DV that caused PTSD, it's more horrific than war (DV victims who get PTSD get it at rates twice higher than that of active combat veterans do, and we don't get basic training to psychologically condition us for it. Not saying they don't have it rough; PTSD sucks. Just they're not getting it in the place they're supposed to be safe, their home, and from people who are supposed to care about them. Veterans do have it rough in their very own seperate ways, and that can be PTSD that causes more PTSD or even worse cPTSD too).

I think once DV/IPV has been eliminated, it'll be easier to look at and examine people who have the psychopathy traits and how they are their own issues in the cycle of violence.

In America these are lifetime customers.

My brother and i grew up in a very abusive home. I have multiple personalities, over 20.
When my brother was 7 and i was 6 he got the lawn mower and chased me. I slipped and fell. He ran the mower in to my face,. I put my hand to stop it and it went into the mower.
My mother told the doctor to cut my hand off.
The doctor put my hand back together, he kept saying " cut it off". over and over.
A few months later my brother drowned me. My dad did CPR because he didn't want to get in trouble.
My brother has been to prison, but he is free and be careful of who you deal with. He is 62 now.

After my childhood i chose a really messed up women to protect her children from her.
Her father was an alcoholic and her mother died when she was 2. Her father sold her to anyone for beer.
When she was 6 her father had her poison a man.
When she was 11 she poisoned her 14 year old brother, killing him
When she was 13 she lied on a innocent man and he went to prison for child rape.
With her 2nd child, at 2 months old she started poisoning her. It took took more than a year to stop it. The girl has a mind of a 3 year old because of the poisoning.
She will never get out of prison.

These are created murders.

I have other stores but too long to tell .
When i say child abuse is bad in the USA, it is really bad

Evil has no age.

When a bug bites you, you squash the bug not whine about its nonexistent humanity. Same diff.

That new identity shit is an offense to the victoms and their families!😡😖

Jesse had scary eyes 👀

In Wisconsin (US) there is a state-run Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center program that works with adolescents with antisocial personality disorder who have committed violent crimes and not responded to standard correction strategies. It is an intensive impatient program in a locked psychiatric facility that has a proven track record for reducing recidivism (program participants were 6 times less likely to commit felony violence than a similar group without treatment) but is expensive because it requires double the staff members and low caseloads for psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers. It isn't perfect, but offers hope that violent juveniles can be rehabilitated.

Bwhaaha, in the US you just sentance them to death or life in prison. But wait, the US Supreme Court ruled that it violated their rights. So now they all have to be retried to see if the children need to spend the rest of their lives in prison. I mean they are not old enough to vote or have sex, but they can sure do hard time!

I know Simon you never consider Canada, but we have a Young Offenders Act. It was written by young British law students doing Masters degrees here in Canada, i was dating one. For the 1980s the act was appropriate, we had youth corrections which had swimming pools, schools, etc. The Act recognized diminished capacity. So time was served but rehab was included. Now in 2024, the Y O act needs re working as teens are jow engaged in adult gehaviours much earlier. Sex at 13yrs, and so on. We see adult criminals sending in the teens to be seen on the security caneras to steal the cars or commit the robberies whilst the adult criminals benefit and do the fencing or selling. So any legislation must move with the times as we see behaviours shift dramatically.

I don't think it's one thing or the other nurture VS nature. I think it is a combination of factors. I suffered horrendous abuse as a child, from my parents, from a male visitor, from school staff and from a mental institution. The details could fill a book! I was actually not a "bad kid" though I had temporal lobe epilepsy and depression.I saved my life by becoming a run away as I turned 12. I remained a transient until I was about 20. Yet, for all the abuse I suffered and witnessed it caused me to become very empathetic. I can imagine a person born with a different nature would become a different person. I have one major failing, still; I tend to wonder at the lack of resilience in many victims I read about, so my empathetic nature still needs more work. Still I keep those thoughts to myself and try to help where and how I may.

Kids that are 11..12..14 etc are old enough to understand right and wrong. I think everyone is born knowing that there are some things that you should not do. I dont think anyones parents ever give their kids the life lesson of "dont murder people" But there was that case simon covered on one of his other channels (casual criminalist i think) of that 5 year old in india that was a serial killer. I think in some cases they cant be rehabilitated because theyre born with a disconnect in their brain and theyre not guided by that moral compass. They dont feel remorse or guilt. On some level the kid knew he did something wrong because he hid the bodies and when the police questioned him he told them give me some (i forget exactly what it was cookies or something) and ill tell you everything you want to know.

To be fair, the Oxford shooter's parents (do not say his name, do not show his picture, take away his fame) bought him a high powered rifle KNOWING he had violent fantasies about harming his classmates.

What about child soldiers and spy kids?

this dude is the definition of pseudo intellectual pop psychology. he uses the word 'psychopath' like a genuine psychiatric term throughout this video, when both psychopath and sociopath are just pop psychology terms for ASPD (anti-social personality disorder)
teaching people new info is great, just try not to pack bullshit pseudoscience in with it.

Maybe psychiatric check ups should be part of the normal check ups kids have as they grow. This gives people more time to discover and do what they can to help kids who have issues.

Ultimately it comes down to parenting or lack of parenting. Society is unraveling, and we did it to ourselves.

Those two that killed the wee boy in England - they found that ONE improved his life post release, and they found child porn on the other.

Children have led kingdoms and killed for the privilege… like…

Humans are truly awful... adult are just better at pretending otherwise

Rehab not exactly worked for John Venables.....

The USA ignores all international human rights laws... and sentance young kids to life without parole. They even still sentance U18's to death.

America has absolutely ZERO interest in rehabilitation.
If they did that they would lose most of their slaves.

Individual cases should be looked at separately. Sometimes it is an abusive parent reaping what they have sown, other times the child may have something wrong with them. Another problem is that families often cover up abuse to make the kid look crazy.

The dilemma really is identifying most of these people as children when they aren’t actually children. The two kids of 10yrs are indeed children, but most of the cases of 12-14yrs aren’t technically biological children. I follow the traditional method of designation children as prepubescent. It makes things a lot easier when I live in an environment where 12-14yr olds are gang related. Meaning they have guns, smuggle drugs, steal, rob, and assault people. I treat them as adults

This whole narrative of brain scans is really missing the point. Morality isn’t found in a physical organ such as the brain. Morality is found in the heart of the soul. It is metaphysical thing. People first have to be given the law in order to be judged by the law. If the law is never given? Then they can’t be held to the same standards of expectations. Someone who knows the law then commits a crime is committing a worse offense than someone who doesn’t know the law and commits the same crime.