3" Deepstrike Is Absolute Bullsh%t...-"A Rant About the Killteam Hivestorm Datasheets.."

These are really good models for sure and are undercosted, you're right. The Vespids are a steal compared to Swooping Hawks ideed. The Aquilon are indeed very nasty and 3" deepstrike (cannot charge but who cares) is very annoying. The only saving grace is that the unit is 10 models on 28mm bases. So they take up space and you might be able to screen them out just because the unit physically cannot fit in your screening net. But it's annoying and demands a lot of resources to dedicate to it, for a unit that is very cheap. 90 points wow.

I was watching the Mordian Glory vid for these, as he has obvious reasons to get excited for Guard, and two more things that excited him, the Sentry Turret flamer is D6+3 hits, instead of the regular D6 base, and their price feels even cheaper when you use thev1/game Reinforcements, since Guard rarely need to use their exclusive Stratagems. So they aren't quite as hard-hitting as regular Scions, but still very good, and you can make them even cheaper with Reinforcements, especially if your Sentinels haven't used it, while there should always be Infantry Orders available, because you'll almost always have Leontus, Creed, or Straken.😊

A little bit better for a few less points has been the Eldar story as long as i can remember. You can always take an Eldar stat line, add another ability or drop a few points, or both, and you have the similar unit for other armies.

My oldest original example was back in 3rd ed. Vypers and Landspeeders were both 50 pt skimmers with a basic heavy weapon. However for that same point value the Landspeeders got deep strike at no extra charge.

It's always been that way. Flavor through imbalanced game play.

I just feel the weight of the conversation you had in your interview video with Mika => gw NEEDS to aknowledge the weight of the multiple nerfs Aeldari had over the past year (especialy fate dices and the absolute gutting of phantasm) and STOP making us "pay for the sins of the early 10th edition". I just feel like today eldars keep winning (when they win ofc...) just because eldar players need to strategise and plan and think twice as much as other armies => eldar are still good because the players are good because the players keep getting their favourite army nerfed and need to finds twisted ways to stay "barely keeping up" with other armies hence eldar player NEED to keep improving (compared to certain other armies => adeptus sororitas ...same dice cheat, zero nerfs, get rekt pointy ears ) and gw seems to understand the data as "eldar datasheet still too stronk bring the big gun ...the NERF gun" -_-.

And I doubt VERY much the codex is gonna change anything because codex usualy don't change unit abilities, and barely adress point problems (dark angel codex release...) and even if they give us detachment it's NOT gonna change the absurdity of the pricing/usefullness of some units (looking at EVERY variant of warlocks here ...) because at the end of the day eldar are NOT imperium, hence NOT the "good guys" and NOT the focus of marketing ie "the ones selling the most".

Let's be honest for 2 min here we're gonna get detachment that barely solves our problems, new phoenix lords minis => but even if they come with new rules they're gonna be way too pricy pointwise for what they do and ..... that .... is .... IT => because GW want "interactivity" which mean "nerf hit and run gameplay"(VERY hypocritical from gw when you think about that and the point of this video >< once again they go full gordon ramsay meme on eldar vs imperium "you fkcin donkey/oh gorgeous" ) which is basicaly all craftworld can do and with that I come back full circle to my original point => same interview different point => we are also paying for drukhari strenght bleeding in our army through ynari while imperium can do everything without nerfs (did the indirect fire nerf REALY impacted the IG aka "THE indirect fire army" ? maybe at the very high end of competitive play but on the grander scale => nope ...) and keeps getting "better units that can do everything".

We pay for choice. You can find better variants of our troops in almost every other army.

They kept nerfing flyers for their non-interactivity.
They kept nerfing indirect for its non-interactivity.
Now they're adding more of the third least interactive thing GW can come up with: 3" Deep Strike... Tougher armies might not care so much, but these are the bane of every T3 1W "elite" army out there (basically just elves lol). We need our backfield screened out to keep certain scoring assets safe, but any army with this rule just laughs at that. It got to a point with me where in my friendly games I've asked my marine playing opponents to sometimes leave the Inceptors at home because there simply is no counterplay to 9 twin-linked sustain 2 heavy bolter equivalents dropping wherever the hell they please. When they do bring some you simply have to swallow the fact that come turn 2 you will lose a few crucial units, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Absolutely garbage game design.

Now having seen these guys' datasheet and points. Yeah these are going to be a huge problem. At less than 9 points per model (counting the turret) these are an absolute steal. You'd happily run 1 of these for 125 points per unit.

This is an overpowered fake out - sell powerful must have models, let people paint and enjoy them for 3 months, nerf them.
But man, 90 pts? That's half the price of a 10 man Scourge unit. Its borked.

I see the Shadowspectres leaving and the new meta as just the excuse we need to run max Warp Spiders. I have 10, I'm about to go up to 20 at least. Fire and fade a 10 pack all game, and leave a 10 pack in the middle for the nastiest overwatch possible

Hard to screen a3” deep strike, but it may be best to tempt them in the back line and phantasm your guardians through the wall, now they’re stuck there with no target.

GW does not balance things well. Their primary incentive and purpose is to sell. Game should not be balnced by gw at all. They dont play their game. Their stakeholders balanced based on what sold well. That gets the nerf. And sometimes the highest complaint record.

Yeah balance at release doesnt seem to be GW's MO. Stinks Aeldari have been so nerfed we're likely gunna have it rough until our codex next year. Double stinks as I finally put together the Wraithknight for a big game with 4 players bringing their superheavys, and it feels like im sitting closer to the dang Stompa than the Stormsurge, and weaker in every single way to both!

The purposeful intent is to make thede overly powerful. You seem shocked. But this is made to sell then nerf comes in a month or three when people have stocked up to stay competitive.

Gotta sell those kits.

I agree that all 3" deep strike should be changed to 6", that would still be very powerful but more able to be countered, and it would better mirror the 3" extra denial range some units get.

Congrats on 5k subs bro!

Okay, are we going for a diversity of factions with unique units and play styles, or are we going for complex chess with 1:1 units in their flavor of aesthetics? Because we already know GW is going to release OP units and 2-3 months, after the sales die down, those units are going to get nerfed and will end up somewhere between somewhat usable to shelf decorations. Then the next wave of releases will come out and somebody else will be pissing and moaning about how your new models are unfair to play against.

I know that as a content creator this is a great subject to get the views, but personally, I would rather see a video where someone is exited to have new units to challenge their strategy and tactics. To say, "Oooh, how cute. I'm going to figure out how to prove that your new OP unit really isn't THAT special."

3 inch deepstrikes are a blight on the game

Swooping hawks have Eldar rerolls and fate dice with a 5++. If you want a dude to stay alive a dude will stay alive.
No one is going to run vespid in 10s, no faction rule, no detachment rule, very little synergy with other models and minimal interaction with strategems. They will always be in 5 man objective units.

You are right about the aquillons, they are stupid cheap.

I'm a Guard player and I also don't like a 3" deep strike for my side or anyone else's. It is just too close.

But I suspect the 90pts is temporary. GW does this when pushing new products and making them too powerful and then nerfing them when the sales have been made. A lot of Guard players remember Kasrkin going up to 120pts per unit. They make their sales and then it isn't important whether the item is loved after that, sales would naturally level off after enough products have been sold and saturation occurs. 90pts today but maybe even 120pts by the time the codex drops.

forward sentries added back then? I'd like a cheap infiltrate unit. till then I'll be happy with a 3in deepstrike. yes its annoying yes I think it's dumb. but we dont have any big durable units that are deepstriking into your back line.
remember we already had 6in deepstrike scions and no one was running mass scion lists only good deepstrike unit we've had for a long time was the Kaserkin with the teleport BS and mass mortal wound.

screen your important units and/or just wait for overwatch with something that has a few flamers T3 and only 9in rapid fire. They are going to be sweet objective grabbers that's for sure

I've heard that GW has overproducted the hive storm box, hence the release of the more busted rules for 40k to push this boxset.

I like the unit for guard but I can't help by see this unit as a pay to win option which is just very manipulative and bad for the game. I have this ability on my Nightlord's raptors and it's good but it's not amazing but CSM is so fast with so many options it just is an extra tool but with guard people will really jump on this.

I don't know about the Vespid how good their rules are but I've heard they are pretty solid. It just seems very cynical to me.

anyone know how 3" deep strike works with navigators or attache` rules (12" deep strike bubble around them)

Just the fact that these guys could possibly deny a charge into something important makes them worth it

DORALEAOUS AND ASSOCIATES, FUCK YEAH, PEAK!!!!!!!

My Trygon will continue to pop up 3" away from you and you will like it.....however....guard having 3" deep strike with a melta and no downside is definitely a weird decision.

For a trygon it make sense, they come fron underground and thus thematically they wouldn't really have much interfering with a deep strike. Aquilons however are basically paratroops, and paratroops don't want to drop on top of enemies.

A bit of a fail both from a rules and a flavor perspective.

Nice Doraleous and associates thumbnail

I mean if you compare the new Scions to T3 units then yea they seem pretty overpowered. Compared to Inceptors? Yea those guys are worth the 130 points with all the stuff they bring with the Plasma or even the assault bolters. Plus you can oath a target for even better kill chance. I saw you mention the Aquilons should be 120 and I don't agree with that. You can get 5 Scions and a command squad for the same price, you get 2 Plasma guns and 2 meltas, sustained hits 1, rerolls, and an order at the same time.

Leave Ret Cadre alone, Leave it alone!

You can’t fix what isn’t broke.

This is classic GW new model bait. Cracked abilities for a stupid cheqp pts. Just long enough for people to buy out all the boxes then they jack up the pts on the next dataslate.

I mean I used to deep strike anything I could as close as possible when we used tonscatter them 😂 but there werent charges afterwards, and died if they scattered into terrain even with rerolls and shenanigans. Or they could come in outflanking/reserves as close as possible. I dont think THAT was ever the actual problem. The problem is that 9in is too far and should be 6in and able to charge if 3in is the no-charge distance. Or bump 3in to 4.5-5in

We did need a 3” deep strike. Elysians!!

The entire squad of Aquilons gets 1 special weapon. Plus the sentry. That’s it. A scion squad gets 4 special weapons plus a plasma pistol on the squad leader so 5 total special weapons.

so aquilons have some big weaknesses, deep strike 3" for a 10/11 stack is a problem. mawlocs and inceptors are crunchy for small foot print. if aquilons are going to be an issue to counter then you should work on your coverage so marines and nids aren't savaging your army. check overwatch stratagem application. aquilons are also a kill team drop. which means they have a crap shoot arsenal. laspistols are kind of pedestrian. tournament wise if aquilons are giving you trouble marines bugs and gsc are going to be a serious problem. vespid seem self contained, aquilons are hampered by armament and the foot print of 11 models. vespid are crippled by essentially having the allies problem. they arent really on the same page as the main army, either your army rule is weak and not really relevant or your army is focused around its rule and the allies units need to do a thing really well to justify them over something that plays with the team. eldar ended up with ynnari instead of an allies spread so there's no direct example. for imperials for instance i can ally in a knight armiger, or i can bring a redemptor dreadnought. the redemptor doesnt have quite the same abilities as the armiger but it plays with the rest of the army. (gw distancing knights from admech was brutal on my secondary armies. rangers and an enginseer used to be a staple of my knights list as an action monkey and pocket medic) i dont expect the kill team units to be too impactful. aquilons are likely to see more use as a tourniquet than push dagger, and the vespid dont interact with the rest of the tau well enough for me to see them catching hold. both will definitely get a points adjustment. just about everything does.

Wow Eldar players are salty AF! This is a fun new datasheet. God forbid anything in Warhammer be fun! 😮

Hmm, i don't necessarily disagree, but when it comes to bs movement aeldari do it better than just about everybody (especially warp spiders).

Aquilons are pretty powerful for sure and especially strong against armies like aeldari where the strength 3 isn't as bad. Compared to scions they don't nearly have the same damage output, but of course can do some pretty great things due to the 3 inch deepstrike (especially in rapid ingress or using grenades).

Concerning points, you really can't compare cost between factions. They all exist within their own context, rules and playstyle. Scions cost only 10 points more and have a much higher damage output for example. That being said, they might be a little too cheap for sure. We'll have to see on how much they are actually played (though i agree that they'll probably see play beyond 1 unit regularly).

Concerning vespids, they won't ever be played in 10 mans. The special weapons range from bad to unreliable at best. And 10 man means they are worse at their best use (scoring). Also, a 5 man will kill ONE marine if they are lucky outside of the drone (0.83 on average and a bit above one with drone). They have terrible output because of bs4+ and no support from any of the army's supporting rules.

Ps: Scions don't have smoke

There is one thing you forget about regarding Aquilons. Guard has no shenanigans, we dont have any advance and shoot/charge, no fall back and shoot (apart from 1 mediocre character). The most gimmicky unit are gaunts ghosts. This is GW attempt to bring pseudo indirect capability back to guard. Ask yourself, would you like indirect like a few months back or this?

Its not bullshit. Whats bullshit is taking it away from units who had it in 9th and 8th, claiming its too powerfull and not possible to balance it.
And then releasing new models who have the rule again. Go play with someone elses balls man. Stop touching them GW

I completely agree, 3 inch deepstrike for Guard.....what the actual F

3 inch deepstrike was my high school name

3” deepstrike is mainly good when they have the firepower to back it up, they don’t. They don’t have the melee they don’t have the ranged.

I dont hate this, but there should be an "infiltrator" type 12" denial unit for each faction too

Gee, does anyone care about eldar tears after their whole faction was the most broken thing ever seen fir most of the edition so far, and still are a top faction even after the nerfs.
And I don't even play either of the new units armies

Funny how he gets ppissed about 3 inch deep strike while I can do this with my gk for a fucking CP!
Also I think more new models are just overstacked with new cool shit to sell them, I dont think they stay strong/will be cheap in army points, basicly the same model as video ggames that want to sell new champions, make them basicly op on release and slowly nerfing them or killingg them with nerfs till nobody wants to pick them anymoore... just compare it to d3/4 new heroes...

Very nice now give it to warp spider's please

And then there's things like nemesis Claw that are just cosmetic.

Tau have 3 inch deep strike, too.

Agree 3 inch deep strikes should not be in the game. Particularly for units that can move after shooting like GK Interceptors or Necron Chronomancer units.

Want some cheese with that whine ?
Eldar had 6 nerf's just to get you 50% win rate at beginning of 10th edition
Guard has been getting slammed for years , and they only S9 which weak against monsters & vehicles
Orders are in command phase //// They are expensive for Guard troops

easy, if the sell enough of boxes they gonna nerf them to the ground