Neuromania? The possibilities and pitfalls of our fascination with brains

one guy that just repeats his dogmas without giving any proofs of them... this may be the last video I see from RSA.

Philosophy is as useless as religion.

I wanted to listen to what he had to say but unfortunately he was a poor speaker - talked to fast, didn't really explain his points properly. Found myself tuning out after about 5-6 minutes & went back to watching Big Bang Theory repeats.

The brain can not identify the difference between a waking moment and the dreaming. We are beings, creatures stuck in the 'in between' of the Universe trying to understand itself through us as to why It was created in the first place. We ourselves, the whole 7billion of us, are collectively inside a massive Universal brain trying to figure everything out like a child does asking the simplest questions with: How, Why, Where, What and When.

By far one of the RSA's best debates yet!

@martyyu that's an interesting philosophy you got there.

if this guy didn't have a British accent, I probably wouldn't agree with him

scientists trying to save their jobs ahaha

We dont look, we listen

@Shitsuren The contributions of Descartes and Avicenna you cite are science based and not about philosophy. As for the others, that's like saying Kashrut law saved people from trichinosis and red tide toxins, i.e., they were relevant for their time but are not useful now. For instance, I appreciate the contributions of Jung and Freud but I would never apply their teachings in contemporary clinical psychology.

@areteist1 Are you suggesting that Raymond Tallis has 35+ years of neuro-scientific research? Where did you hear that? He was a gerontologist.

Where have i heard this bullshit before? Oh yeah, creationists. "As Seen On: Uncommon Descent" *sigh*

@broadcaster1star I don't understand what you could mean by 'reductionism'? What else could be responsible for mental functioning aside from the brain? (and please, please, don't say magic).

‘Man is more than an overdeveloped monkey’ You can say that again! " And God went on to say: 'Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness....'" - Genesis 1:26

@critiacrof I'd also like to know the url :/

I read Tallis' article in New Humanist, and his argument for a transcendental mind was basically "A rock cannot think; therefore, consciousness is immaterial."

@spiltteethy Which evidence is that (assuming circular reasoning is not permitted) ?

@areteist1 My opinion is based on my current understanding of the universe, my framework for understanding the universe is severely limited, which I believe to hold true for most of mankind, the data on which I base my opinion, is my own interpretation of the scientific articles I've read and the philosophy, both eastern and western I've studied. It might not be correct, but it's the best my mind can come up with as of now. But I believe (as do we all?) to be standing on the shoulders of giants.

@stephenpaquet I agree, philosophy USED to be about the fabric of the mind,the experience and the understanding of the universe, it's right there in the name "philosophia".. He should join the research instead of working against it.

the man is flat out wrong and arrogantly so

Taylor attributes the growth of neuroscience materialism to the perceived failure of behavioral economics such as H. economicus. 1st u have to know that man is the rational animal however his economic decisions will be affected by the gov't system (laws, regulation, taxes,etc.) under which he resides. So it is not that man isn't rational as theorists devised but that certain gov't laws are irrational and thwart man's rational choices. Simply put Taylor uses bad economics to justify bad science.

@Lekozza "Let us make God in our image, according to our likeness..." - Human nature, chapter 0 verse 0.

this kind of adamemicky stuff can leave me cold, but i wanna share some ideas. I do NOT believe the brain is a computer. I do NOT believe everything is 'matter' like I dont believe everything is 'spirit'. I rather see a thang going on through the patriarchal history of ideas which includes secret schools, philosophy, and religion and sceince where there is assumed a division between matter and nature, where science now even totally DISMISSES 'spirit'. Now notice where the other speaker talks

@zezt 2--- 'animal spirits' in a negative way to explain shitty behavior, and then says how Ray will not even accept them. BUT in indigenous cultures animal spirits are DEEPLY respected!! The very term 'animal' derives from ANIMA, or soul. And the MASSIVE mistake patriarchal culture does is look down on animals, and hence they have bcome civilizations first slaves and victims where millions of then are subjected to cruel treatment in the 'name of science'. In this respect I want to remark on the

@zezt 3--second speakers naive idea that video games, being known to give rewards, could be used on school kids. OMG....In actuality the video-makers USE animal 'testing' of rewards for repetitive tasks as a central trick to keep kids GLUED to fukin vid games, and he wants that added to the ALREADY victim hood of ENFORCED 'education'?? How ironic is THAT. Science does NOT know what consciousness is and does not know what matter is!

@zezt * I mean "is assumed a division between nature and spirit

A really stimulating debate. Thinkers like Raymond Tallis are valuable to the intellectual community since they dare to challenge the foundations of our thinking and dare to go against the mainstream.

interesting thing is that it looks you always come back to consciousness, i mean, noone will report an blackout that he didnt came back from :) So it may be that subjective experience is eternal. What these blackouts prove is that brain is necessary to experience this world, not another.

your argument would be great if you left out words like "fukin". Here are alternative perception: - your fear is keeping kids addicted is Orwellian - another view is better to do that with education (useful) than computer games (perhaps useless) - BlueDog was a very famous American kids show that tested and kept kids addicted resulting in both entertainment but also very useful education. There were no side effects - your view must be appreciated case the technology is misused(e.g.government)

disagree with you. Neither speakers appear arrogant to me. They both have viewpoints that they put across very well - but in my view , without arrogance that I've seen in other speakers (e.g Hitler). Then again, for me to disagree, I have to use frames of reference, and in your view, your frames of reference may mean they are arrogant in comparison to your frames of reference ! So you could be right!

I believe the brain is a computational device, but unique and distinguished from a normal computer. I believe this because the mind engages in "selection" which is the same as "omission" leading to 'distortion' (because of omission, and also omission means some information is selected and other is not), all leading to a computation.

"- your fear is keeping kids addicted is Orwellian" this does not make sense to me? "- another view is better to do that with education (useful) than computer games (perhaps useless)" again I dont understand how you type English--same goes for other two points. I am not being funny--I want to understand what you mean but it is not clear

In Raymond Tallis's favor, Sam Harris would disagree with all this and tell him why he doesn't know enough. For an encore Sam would claim to produce an ought from an is.

Salman Rushdie does neuroscience....

Were you intending to support that view with anything other than an arrogant assertion?

You are quite right to think so. Social patterns of value, intellectual patterns of value, these sorts of things are real but not material. You might like Robert Pirsig's book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He also thinks our division of reality leaves out something The event at which things are first known is one of value or quality.

Yes, in other words they use common sense and intuitive insights to inform their rational thinking. That definitely goes against the mainstream. : )

You need to distinguish the computer from the software. The mind, though dependent on the brain functions independently. Chemicals do not cause thoughts in the same way that computers do not cause software.

from what I've seen and read the evolutionary, materialistic view of the brain is the only game in town (the flaws of individual studies notwithstanding). your brain gets damaged or influenced, your "self" changes, period. the self is nowhere to be found. the basis of Prof. Tallis' argument is essentially the typical "spiritual" argument of (neuro-) science doesn't know it all, so we're (still) free to fill the gaps with whatever pleases us intellectually or fits into our existing models.

In terms of the marshmallow test (roughly 34:00 ), it'd be interesting to see if stress hormones behaved differently in those who were able to defer gratification, say if their levels were lower, or if they rose normally but dissipated faster.

I didn't watch the whole video, but I've encountered this discussion many times in my studies. If the mind is a product of the brain, everything in the mind can be explained by the brain. However, the complexity of the brain makes this an almost impossible process to understand. Neural activity in one sight results in increases or decreases in activity in another site and this process continues ad infinitum. What is causing what? An impossible question, even in lesion studies.

Thinking mainly of McGilchrist's thesis, whether it is metaphor or actually correct is largely irrelevant. For many people it is compelling and it answers to a need. It sends a warning out to a world of people "ambling toward the abyss". We're on to you (and ourselves), we take mass narcissism and global ecological despoliation very seriously. We shouldn't wish to have 'windows onto men's souls' but scientism is pervasive, it is Left Brained and defines the less than ideal terms of engagement, we respond in kind

Cont- the left brained nihilists leave us little choice, live by the principles of game theory, die by those principles, tit for tat.

Comedian, Doctor, Actor, musician, academic, is there anything Dr House cannot do?

many words about scientific confirmation...did I miss the moment we came back to positivistic account of science?

Matthew appears to be under the influence of stimulating pharmaceuticals. Methylphenidate perhaps?

Tallis is just gonna keep getting proved right. See Alva Noe's work Out of Our Heads.

People are not very good at the long-term. Fascinating. To me, that's a characteristic of particular cultures. Native American cultural groups have historically placed emphasis on "seven generations in the future." If we think of that value in terms of policy implications? Anyhow, excellent presentations. 💚💚💚

@RSA The link to the full podcast is broken. Is it possible to post an updated link? Thank you. ❤