SaltEMike Reacts to CIG Clarifies Issues Around Jump Points

I agree that CIG should look more at EVE and that EVE gate camps are horrible.
CIG could solve the jump gate issue by spawning you somewhere in the system you're going to in "dead space" between planets.

Edit: CIG should also make you immune/invisible for a few seconds after you jump to give everyone time to load maybe.

Drama. Yay. I really don’t care and waiting for the next patch.

The only "gate" to a "system" in eve is for WH space.
In EVE you can jump 200 people through a gate at once.

I really do not understand how this is such an issue. There are various ways to solve gatecamping on the recieving end if the devs want to. Have a narrow scatter and high security defending it. Have a giant scatter and watch a 100 campers try to cover a 50.000km radius sphere. You could even have the jumppoint emit a shockwave that washes everyone within a few thousand km away whenever something comes in.

However I fully agree on groups. They should only exist to simulate "law and order" type byrocracy on government controlled gates. Have ATC place you in the "active group" that is limitless in size and have the gate station "fire the activation pulse" every few minutes/seconds to send off all ships currently waiting.

Mike, unsure if you missed it on ISC. But the first come grouping thing is only for now since ATC cant handle groups yet, they said in the video they want ATC to handle player groups later later on but it cant atm.

Still think there should be a structure at the jump point entrance (would make a lot more sense with other systems; safety bubble force field and vehicle sensors, among others), they should remove the particle that activates the portal (or at least make it invisible) and group size limitations should be nonexistent when server meshing is implemented (although there could be a lore reason)

Cig should have torrets on jump points or torrets control by a united alliance like the u.n. in preparance to have a clear jump point in case of an alien attack but it is commonly use for gate ambushes

How is Stanton protected unless the UEE is protecting the jump point TO Stanton...They should be protecting traffic both ways.

The gates that should be possible to camp are the transient jump points where illegal activity is going to have to take place and where people with illegal goods or crime stats have to go through.

Playing Eve will show you what people will do, not a bad idea. Jump Points will be littered with Mantis and Polaris on the other end.

sounds like you are gonna need to come out guns blasting to prevent getting camped, and that's if you even survive.. gotta send a scout i guess.

I think part of your frustration and trying to understand what their definition of gameplay is, is precisely because technical limitations being covered up as "gameplay" decisions

If the devs had any clear idea, read management, there wouldn’t be any conversation about this.

They're trying to put in ways around the griefing? But you all just can't deal with that. It's okay. Just go play Eve then. The complaint points on this make you seem like the idiot. There will be an armistice and atc on the other end. So if you do get griefed on the other side of the JP, that's clearly a crime stat? It's not just a lawless free for all

Make the jump points emit an emp that kills ships power if they are too close to the exit.

Pyro gonna b toxic af

Why can't the beem 'eminate' from the jump point and attach to the ships Field? It'd look WAY cooler

I'm less worried about the gate camping (It's supposed to happen) and more worried about random trolls just bumping people trying to align. Assuming we have groups of 100+ pvp groups it doesn't matter you warp in, they scan you down or wait on the other exits and you're not leaving once you leave that gate. Game over. Just like eve sacrifice your ship for the whole for the big bucks. Let the little fish go at gates. Oh and also in Eve the big thing is you stay cloaked after you jump. <-- that would help in groups (assuming you can stay cloaked long enough). Yeah, it's all a bit of a mess.

I don't mind the ATC at the big JPs. It makes sense to me. But i really want some awesome Jump Gates around them :(

Star Citizen has a better border policy than The Biden Administration

I think players will just have to adapt to the savagery of others by playing in big groups and praying for server stability. If the servers function as intended, the jump gate weapons will too

I'm hoping atc is just a placeholder until CIG can get the npc security to function reliably.

Transient jump points = exploration gameplay loop. Find/trade/sell transient jump points. They are a resource to be traded.

Soo it sounds like pirates can camp...unplayable game bs

my interpetation was that the group would end up in the same area, out of a few options. But it was very misleading because he started yapping about it being done to give players that pyro vista first time entering, which made it sound like the whole group gets spread out. But yeah now i dont know anymore, hopefully it was poor wording because spreading the group out like that wouldnt make sence I fully agree

My prediction: jump points are being turned into hard armistice zones for the time being until they figure out how to solve jump point camping

Don't forget about dropping mines at jump points with the Nautilus.

I'm fine with ATC at the jump point, makes total sense to me from a lore and gameplay standpoint. The group jump is a bit annoying but doesn't bother me that much.

Visuals matter to CIG because visuals matter to Chris Roberts. One because that is really all he enjoys about his creations, and two because it is largely what sells the game to new players.

Rule of cool.

Imagine there were gates around the jump points, than the ATC would actually make a bit of sense. But you can't have gates, because that would take away from the idea that jump points are a natural occurrence, unlike ATC controlling the access to the jump point... CIG logic

the burst of energy is silly, literally unplayable

Biggest problem is not enough people will play as security forces because there's no upside. Rep with security forces should give you access to top shelf components and weaoons.

I am starting to think it is a bad idea to start with the first jump point going to Pyro especially the way this half cooked game works - all the PVE-ers are going to want to feel privileged to go exploring our first jump in what's basically going to be a PVP warzone and then cry about it when they can't get anywhere

Again, we can see that EVE is a good example. When you enter a gate, you need to be within 2km of the gate, when you come out, you are placed randomly in a sphere at 20 km away from the gate. Gatecamps are common in EVE, but this spreading out does require a larger group, or more specialized ships, to successfully excecute. The degree to which they spread us out will be key in determining how hard it is to camp a gate. At 1000km it would be impossible, you could at best monitor traffic through. At 20km camping would be pretty easy with a mantis or cutlass blue and a few supporting ships. The maximum jump group size will also be a large factor. If a group is 5, that heavily favors the campers/defenders. If it's 20, the odds are more even. We really just need it in our hands to test...

How have they not figured these things out by now?? After 12 years??? Not only should it been figured out, it should be the most slickest, stream-lined, QoL'd experience ever! Amateurs! Buffoons!!

A1 is also talking a lot about this issue with a good vid.

Why cant i just fly in there. Arent these natural occurrences? How could this even be shot at to open or be controlled? And why do i need a drive for that? A special routing/shipcontrolling device for stabilization, ok. But an activation device wich shoots a beam? Who is designing this?

maybe coming out of a jump point should send an emp blast out. and then come up w some lore reasons about being in the jump point leaves you protected from emp for a duration, so people coming from behind don't emp people who just exited

I, really fail to see why they are apologizing for having a single file line, it's how EVE handles jumpgates as well. If they need more space for people to load in on the output, then having a single file line will help the game calculate where to place everyone as well, even if you are group queueing

Random exit point. Like they said. Hundreds of Km radius

Make gate guns S10 railguns with 10km range or somethin. impossible to dodge. Small ships get one shot, mid size 2-5 shots, large ships 10 shots or so or they lose a part of the ship when hit. 3 - 4 Guns in "high sec" systems, 1 - 2 guns in "low sec" systems, and 0 guns in "null-sec" systems

Having to call atc to enter a natural phenomenon seems silly. Should have kept the circular gate if we’re calling atc. Or get rid of the gate and let people just fly right into it while in nav mode.

I dont get what people are confused about with the shooting to open the gates hole thing. They explained it. Its you sending a pulse of energy to open the hole. Its so clear and benign. What the hell is the issue lol

Why wouldnt the UEE just man both sides of the jumppoint? literally takes minutes to go back and forth right?

@SaltEMike. TBH I have to disagree with the group jumping. Here are the things I like about it: Its around controlled space (aka ATC) I think its safe to assume there will be an armistice zone around the JP. So the "ganking" thing doesn't feel like a huge risk. Also grouping like that will give players an opportunity to meet up and see other players out in space. Something that is rare is ever now. (In a standard MMO you have these areas around zeppelins and ships etc. where players meet and hangout before travel commences) to me the group jumping will act as this.

I actually think its a great feature. Otherwise you might randomly see 1 person zip in or out of a JP, but now its a slight choke point and will seem more like a busy port then a dead NPC town in the middle of nowhere.

The ending of the Wing Commander movie involved humans winning the war by gate camping. They had a fleet railgun each enemy ship as they arrived one by one. With this being a CR thing in the past, I doubt group size limits are going away.

To me, a huge change in jump points is lifting the limitations of ship size on the permanent jump points. A Hull E or Javelin could not take the same route as a Starlifter or a Freelancer DUR. Big ships used to have to take the long way around in the old plans.

It sounds like there’s a strong incentive to just ram your ship into the wormhole wall when you cross the halfway point. Then at least the probability of you getting jumped (excuse the pun) is much lower. To me that’s not great game design.

It’s been mentioned several times that the jump points will be non-combat zones.

They could make it that just before you exit, the exit jump point emits a emp that empties all shields within a radius. Making any hostiles needing to camp out side of this zone?