Why Your Mix Sounds Bad at High Volume

Hi David, I think there are more reasons why a mix can sound bad when played loud.
Maybe you didn't even think of them because for you these things are a given but they're not for us common mortals!

It can be that the mix sessions have been too long and without breaks, and excessive high end has been progressively added as the hours passed, which goes unnoticed in the moment but comes out the next day, especially if the song is played loud.

And it could also be that the mix has been done at a low level where we hear less top and bottom end, and again this has caused the mix to be mid scooped, which sounds bad when you play it loud later on.

This goes back to one of the first lessons I learned in Audio Engineering School @ SAE NYC, which is Equal Loudness Contours. The reason why all sound systems crap out at a certain level is because most songs are mixed with a relatively even frequency response, and when listened to at louder than studio reference level (ear damaging levels), the frequencies humans are most sensitive to (upper mid frequencies) will begin to sound harsh. This happens even if the sound system produces no audible distortion at these loud levels.

The second possibility which adds to this perceived harshness past a certain SPL is that the sound system simply can't handle the output level, and therefore the harshness is even worse due to the added distortion.

The third possibility is that your mix is not done at studio reference level. If you mix at a lower reference level than studio reference level then you risk your mix sounding imbalanced and harsh when listened to at louder levels. Keep in mind studio reference level (83-87 dB SPL average peak) is right below the threshold of sound pressure that starts to become ear damaging.

You hit the nail on the head! I was having a bad day but this made it so much better, thank you Dave! It does seem to be in the high mids and really high frequencies, I don’t know why but I tend to make everything brighter than my references. I was just wondering if it had anything to do with too much distortion and probably does, and yes the mid high frequencies are piercing when I turn up the volume so I probably just have to much information there with all the tracks combined

It seems like the importance of low end differs with genre. For example, for a rock mix I'd rather have it be too thin than too bassy. And the level where it's "too bassy" happens much sooner than it would in a hip hop mix. I know a lot of rock mixers mix on NS-10s and spend the vast majority of their time on the midrange rather than the low end. Many don't even have a sub. They just check their low end briefly in headphones or on a different system.

Also, I enjoy music from early eras where the low end wasn't nearly as pronounced. Their bass amps couldn't produce it in the studio, and the playback systems couldn't reproduce it once the record was cut. In fact, I believe mastering for vinyl took this into account. All music having a bunch of sub content is a very modern phenomenon. Even the amount of 60-100 hz is more modern, though you can probably find that starting in the 80s, I would guess.

Hi david, we hear you talk a lot about the fact that "you need big speakers to be able to hear the low end correctly". So what is the minimum speaker size (a least the size of the boomer) required to be able to make a good mix with fully crontroled low end ?
And second little question: why have 3 sets of speaker with differents speaker size like you have ?
Thanks a lot for all your advices !

Thanks for help us in sharing your knowledge and elevate the conversation between pros and newbees

Maybe there is also a problem with the ISPs. When there is a true peak above 0, after the the convertion to mp3 for example, good converters will forgive it and cheaper one not. So try to check the TP after the convertion.

David, I think I a noticing that you do not really use outboard effects processors? Do you mostly or only use plugins for delay reverb, chorus etc...?

Why do the videos from this channel always come up when I type in" Robben Ford"? It's almost everyday.

I sometimes wonder if a plug-in could be developed that can be inserted last in a channels chain to provide a general target frequency / dynamic level for specific instruments. But for the purpose of helping make automation judgments. To keep things consistent.

Like a lane keep assist for a car to keep your individual elements within their own “lane”

Then when other elements are added you can get a general view of those individual elements and see what automation could be done to re-balance. Sort of like tonal balance control but not for full mixes.

CAN U DO A VIDEO FOR US ABOUT HOW TO CONTROL OR WRK ON OUR MID RANGE

Hello David!

Thank you very much for your videos! They have helped me a lot.

I'm mixing a rock EP right now and I'm very happy with all the tracks.
I worked without presets, sometimes the kick is a bit more present, sometimes it's the bass. Sometimes the guitar mids sound more focused, sometimes the mids are lower.
All the tracks are aligned in terms of frequency and LUFS (at the loudest parts), and yet they all sound different.

Which is more important to you, the sound of the album or the sound of the individual track?

Regards
Jörn

Thank you for the video...is there any value in using analysers like ozone's tonal balance as a secondary help to your ears to balancing a mix or would you recommend not using them at all?

👍

Will you support Turkey ?

An un-automated track sounds flat and flatulent

Hi, with the help of your videos I got to a point where my mixes sound loud without much distortion which is great. The only problem I have noticed is that my mixes don't sound as clear as more professional ones I hear (Each element is easier to identify and it doesn't like a big clump of sound). Would you know how I could fix this issue? Thanks

Hi David,
In the Acustica audio's Tiger review you don't engage the oversampling. What are the downsides of oversampling and in which cases we better not oversample our audio source ?
thanks for your great contents

💯🎯💯🎯💯🎯💯🎯💯🎯

I find some kinds of distortion are easier to "get wrong". Clipping is hot right now but when the sharp and inharmonic digital artifacts intrinsic to clipping are played loudly, they can reaalllly grate the ears.

In the box production sounds good if you know how to set your daw properly and you know Deeply sound design startegies digital dbfs digital gainstaiging and if people stop the analog feticism and start producing and mixing using the tools and knowledge that comes along digital audio era witouth importing analog strategies and obsolete tools in the digital realm also implementing armonic distortion saturation It's not just possible also in the digital but it's mandatory

Thanks for this

Hi David, surely you know there are plugins (eg. Fletchy-Muncher by Noisebud) that can simulate listening at very high volume levels (without destroying your ears) by taking into account the Fletcher-Munson curves. What's your take on these plugins? Can they be trusted? Are there any traps to avoid while using them? Thanks for all the knowledge you pour upon us!

“Cut your low-end 45db; no sh!t.”😂😂

You should talk about the Zay 808 and how it has made the best sounding bass in trap like the box by roddy rich

Interesting

Thanks David, always wondered why this happened in some mixes, but didn't know exactly why.I know its probably basic stuff , thank you very much for clearing that.

Thanks for the video man! My signal actually peaks 2-3db higher when I use a hi-pass filter on the low end. Like you say in the video, you see many people recommend cutting low end to free up headroom, but wouldn’t this trigger their compressors and limiters more? Sounds like it could be better to not cut the low end like you say and also have more headroom. I’m confused on how it actually creates headroom.

Exactly my problem always))

Great points here.

Don’t know what I’m doing right, but my mixes sound so much better cranked 🔈

Dave, when i produce music, it sounds fine in headphones and earphones,but when i play it in phone or any other system,,it sounds like the volume is jumping up and back,,i don't know why?????

Thanks for the clarification on the mid/mid high issue. I've had the same question for a long time. Can I ask you to explain a bit more about what you mentioned right after the intro of the video. Meaning the fact that so many mixes start sounding harsh in the low-end region, even professional officially released songs on established record labels, even in professional acousticly treated rooms.
For example, some of them start to sound a bit to punchy. Is it the limit of studio monitors or some error and bias in the frequency response of the room ?

In my case, some "professional mixed" songs from spotify distort too when i turn up the volume, I was really upset when I heard my mix on phone and it sounded with a lot of distortion. It was both my mix and the phone speakers because the tonal balance was a little bit off, so there was really too much distortion, but usually if I listen to some acoustic instruments, at high volume for example, even for professionally mixed songs the harshness is there

Is it better to mix vocals after bouncing your beat or while you are busy mixing your beat/song, I.O.W mix and master beat and vocals in one project?

I would like this video, but it's currently at 666 likes.

Great question. In my experience I've noticed tracks that are pushed too hard into the final limiter tend to fall apart when the volume goes up. Particularly digital over limiting

I thought about trying Soothe 2 or Reso on my digital mixes but real analog gear helped. Initially I paid someone to do a master with tape. It was better. But then I tried Mix:analog last night and ran a song through their Fairchild 670 clone. WOW

Added a lot AND got rid of the harshness

I thing a lot of times is the problem that you treat your mix like it's the final stage not having in your mind that after mix comes the big guns mastering stage (especially when creating EDM) where every mistake and level that was good "in the mix" will blow up in your face, haha. You have to have all the stages of the music process in your head while your mixing, for example: this level of high frequency on guitar here is just right, yes, here is the sweetspot ... No, wrong, it's just right now, but it will be too much in the mastering stage ... That's why is good to blast the limiter over your mix from time to time (while you're mixing), to see what will "explode" later and make your mastering a living nightmare. :)

I have the exact opposite problem, my mix sounds bad quiet but great loud lmao

Here's the video I've been looking for, for ages🔥🤦

Damn, made a song and it turned out pretty okay. But when I turn up the volume on my headphones my vocals becomes really shrill and babylike 😅 I was thinking Im going insane listening to my track and sometimes my vocals would dramatically change its tone. It was only today that I noticed on medium volume it sounds fine and at higher volume all the deepness in the tone of the vocals just vanish. Guess Ive got few sleepless nights ahead of me figuring out whatever it is Im doing wrong

Yeah some of my mix sound better when cranked some just fall apart

Hi, I am interested in the weekly consultation subscription.
Does this mean that once a week, I can get a mix consultation?

This is one of the most undercover questions ever which almost nobody got in mind I guess: I noticed that on my monitors I have in every mix a resonance at around 127HZ. I assume this is the resonance frequency of my room (The room is standard size around 4 by 4 meters)? I noticed that my fav mix/masters which have low end optimized for big subwoofers (frequencies below 55HZ) normally do not have this resonance. So the engineer must have this cutted out around 127hz. This frequency in basses sound painful to me.. Now I heard from a top artist from germany a mix and there was this resonance around 127hz (seemed they pushed this range!). What is it about, do engineers cut that range out on purpose in order to avoid this uncomfortable sounding resonance (in my opinion)? Why is that resonance around 127hz and how to handle that? I researched and found others who are also f-ed up by this resonance around 127hz.. So I always cut it out in order to make my low end sounding smooth and not sounding like a hammer or knock. Take care bro!

i seriously just noticed this on my own. wish this one had shown up in my feed months ago.

but it takes a lot of skill to get all the information you want in the upper mids without it becoming too much.

I'm getting there. thanks for the wisdom.

Thank you very much brother. The mid range was truly helpful. 👏👏👏👏👏

thank u sm