MAX vs the F1 GREATS by Peter Windsor

You can’t compare a hobby for elites in the 50s with the athletes of today,it’s a completely different sport by now.

Max is great, but the big difference is the actual safety of nowadays cars. In the old days getiing out of a race alive was a unique performance so to speak. The older guys were real dare-devils, nowadays racing in F1 is not equal to a deathwish anymore

Jim Clark surely the greatest of all time. The way the older generation talk about him is GOD like. He also showed how good he was in other formulas. Unbelievable. Please read up on some of his performances.

Grand slams are going to be lower for modern day drivers whose tires couldn't last a whole race and had to pit...

I thought grand slams included fastest lap too? Thanks either way.
One interesting statsheet I saw was wet race wins, in which obviously Max scored highly too, something like second only to Senna in percentage won - but I can't remember which year the dataset started.

Clark will always be the greatest f1 driver in my opinion.
Multiple class wins,incredible talent with a lovely gentle manner.
Now if he hadn’t died I don’t think we’d be even remotely considering who the greatest F1 driver is .
As far as greatness: Sebastian Loab is the greatest.
No F1 racing driver comes near that level of pure car control,natural ability and incredible consistency.
That’s my 2 pence .. thoughts Peter?

7 of the GOATs, but missed out Moss, Stewart, Lauda and Alonso. Not the most statistically GOAT, but each dominated their era, by perception is not by results, although Stewart's were pretty sensational (leading all time wins on 27 for a very long time). Early Lauda was in a class of his own. Totally dominant between 1974 and 76, before his accident. Then became more of a 'percentages driver' to clinch 2 more world championships. Should have been champion in 74 and 76.

Hamilton thinks Senna was the greatest, Senna thought Fangio was the greatest, and Fangio thought Clark was the greatest. I, personally, trust and respect Fangio's opinion very much.

This guy hates vettel

As Vettel isn't a great, Max isn't as well. Until he beats a better car or an equal team mate that question will hang, please don't say he has crushed all teammates when he hasn't. We also know how RB has been setup as a one team driver in the Ferrari Schumacher mould.

If you win one or multiple WDCs then you are a great and of course that includes Max. Yes you can have your favourite but what’s the point of ranking champions, it’s all subjective.

As the saying goes, “comparison is the thief of joy”. Just enjoy the racing nuff said.

Jim Clark for me. Any person who can be a world champion in any sport but still refers to themselves as a sheep farmer gets my vote. Obviously his sheer brilliance behind the wheel has quite a lot to do with it as well

Fangio didn’t always finish in the car he started in. He didn’t win any races in a teammate’s car but he did famously have help from Peter Colins that secured Fangio’s fourth world title. Not sure if it would affect much statistically.

WTF is this, how on earth you compare a grid 50 years ago when the grid first to last was few seconds appart with today that is hunderds of a second RUBBISH

Max Verstappen is like a mix of Clark and Schumacher for me, maybe Ayrton, but with my limited knowledge of Clark and Senna only seeing footage , he seems more of a Clark character. He feels the car and the race unlike most like Clark did.

Obviously all great drivers. How much of their success though can be attributed to car dominance?

Calling Max another Yuki Tsunoda...this is coming from a guy who left his pal paralysed in a car

Also take into consideration f1 nowadays are better than before with all the knowledge and equipments they have now. People say Lewis raced on a grid with 5 different world champions, that really doesnt mean anything. What if Piastri, Charles, Russell, Norris probally are on par with them but never won a title because the incapability of the car or that Max is just an alien?

All we know is facts, Daniel destroyed Vettel, Charles beat Vettel, Russell did beat Lewis, Max did beat Lewis etc etc

All useless. Depends on the car, the eye test is the only way.

Max, as a racer, is Simpqly Lovely. 🎉

I used to do the same thing at Sandown Park in Melbourne. The photo at the start gives me such great memories.

Senna had Prost as a team mate for two seasons and then in 1990 Prost was in an equally good Ferreri........ Max's two seasons in a dominant car he had err.......Pèrez

I'm sure Senna and Prosts championship and race wins would be a lot higher if Perez was their team mate

And let’s not forget the Merc years dented Schumacher’s stats

I was a teenage English boy in the 1960s and Clark was my hero. Saw him win at Brands Hatch in 1964. By coincidence, I have just been running exactly the same stats your friend has done on Clark, that is the percentage of wins in races he actually completed. A number of things you might also have added. In 1965 he skipped the Monaco Grand Prix to go to America and win the Indianapolis 500 therefore doing so in the same year as he became Formula One champion. As I recall, in those years in F1 only the best six results counted for the driver. In both 1963 and 1965 Clark scored maximum points. A further point to note is that we are used to these days to the youngsters starting in karting, then moving into formula 3 formula 2 and then Formula One. In Clark's day, drivers performed in every type of racing from saloon cars, sports cars even hill crimes. Their driving styles had to be much more versatile. In Clark's classic year 1963, apart from his absurd Formula One statistics of winning 70% of the races he completed, he won 5 out of 7 sports car races., not finishing the other two, and two out of two saloon car races. So in those categories he scored 100% of the races he completed. In 1964 he almost won the championship again only beaten by Surtees in the last race because once more Clark broke down while leading. In that season Surtees only one twice but came second three times. (this is rather reminiscent of Alain Prost who won 51 Formula One races but finished second in 55. I can never have that much respect from somebody who wins titles by finishing second a lot.) As was clear from your stats typically Clark either won or didn't finish. I still regard him as the greatest driver of all time from the point of versatilty as well as statistics.

This guy loves to push Max's case 😂

I’ll take vettel over max

Great use of data. It's good to see how good Fangio and Clark were. Hopefully will put a lid on the current hysteria about this very barren time of driver talent.

If you see WDC/WCC ratio…
Max gets 200%

Max Verstappen is a great racer!! The real experts of F1; F1 drivers, F1 journalists and this in combination with statistics, tell me more than enough!
Not those weak figures here, who react based on ignorance and emotion and have never driven competitively in a racing car.
What stupid, unsubstantiated commentary......go away!!

Now do Lance Stroll

Is it possible that in the old days (say before the 70's), the competition in the field wasn't as broad as in the modern era? And that extreme talents like Fangio and Clark didn't have 4 or 5 other really good drivers to fight with? And surely the difference between cars was higher as well? I don't know, but it might be a possible reason for the large differences.

Lewis better quit F1 to keep his statistics up to par.

Still pretty much impossible to compare. Yes cars nowadays are more reliable, but that doesn't just go for their own cars, but also their rival's cars. How many races did Fangio an Clark win because their rival's car broke down. It's difficult to say.. Every era has had their greats and there is no doubt Max is one of those generational talents, like Fangio, Clark, Senna, Prost, Schumacher or Hamilton.

Dear Peter, you state that the cars were way less reliable. That also means that IF you finish the race you also have a higher chance to win. Think about it.

I didnt have the pleasure of seeing Fangio, so the best I've ever seen is Jimmy.

Max would cook all these fools in an equal race. You have to remember Max has spent more time behind a wheel than any driver in history when you include time spent sim racing. He started karts when he was 3. The guy is like a thoroughbred race horse, designed and nurtured to race.

One comment said jim clark fangio couldn't drive today load of nonsense they would adapt today as they did 60 years ago

The Lotus 49 shot must have been in. Feb 68. I think that was the first appearance of the colour scheme.

I find comparisons between completely different generations / eras to be utterly useless because there are no bases for comparison since EVERYTHING has changed over the years. There are levels of greatness and on the top tier level you’ll find Fangio, Clark, Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton, Max among some others one next to the other……..no need to be goating anyone of them, just credit them all

i think if there isn't a categorical shift sometime soon for lewis it's all over, better to walk away r

Comparisons in a sport like F1 where regulati9ns change every few years is pointless. You cant really compare them. We can talk about talent and what they did to cement thwir legacy. For me Michael will be the GOAT. He left a championship winning team to go resurrect the fortunes of another team and endure years of ateuggle to build that team up and then dominate like no other. And then come back from retirement and help build another team wh8ch woukd go on to won even more than his ferrari days akbeit he wasnt there to enjoy the benefits.
Senna was obviously super talented. So was lauda and prost.

Max has shown tremendous maturity in juat a few years and is showing that he is among the greats cos what he is doing with a not so good car is bonkers. Is he the greatest? Not for me but on his way there.

Peter Windsor = F1 Yoda
Wonder if you all think MV01 belongs on the F1 Mount Rushmore yet:?

This is all complete bullsh*t and meaningless. You verstappen fan girls can imagine yourselves all the max's greatness you want. W@nkers

Seems like Peter forgot to adjust the End marker before rendering the video

Great drivers are the ones who win whilst having absolutely no business winning. I respect Max’s ability, but how times has he done that? Japan this year? Any others?

Very hard to compare the eras. These stats are quite basic, too. Better to compare vs teammates and consider the pace of the car. Check out How good is Max? Parts 1 and 2 on Peter's channel for a much better analysis.

What is difficult for me to factor in the older seasons is how the rest of the field was. Not just the other cars, but the other drivers. Senna and Prost were racing together at the height of their abilities, that means they stole a lot of wins from each other. This should place the both of them higher in any ranking. These comparisons do not factor in those factors. We've seen Max drive tractors and lawnmowers up to the podium or the top steps. We've seen him overtake the entire field from the back to the front in rain races, twice. How was that in the black-and-white era?

Beware of swearing MAX, tea towel is watching.