Flying with Force Trim | Understanding trim in the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior for DCS World

A word of advice for the Instant and Fade In/Fade Out trim methods. Fly the helicopter into trim while holding the Trim Release button. When you get to where you want it release the Trim Release button and the controls won't over deflect. Central Position is for the birds.

Instant is the way forward with FFB, press and hold force release, move stick to where you want it and release, works a treat. Absolutely fabulous implementation of force trim.

appreciate all the dcs videos! using springed vkb gf stick with extension, vkb pedals, for the kw the cyclic=fade in/out with pedals=none works the best for me. pedals automatically center once the tail plane become active with forward flight so pedal force trim not needed. wish ed will add the fade in/out option to the apache.

I don't know what's wrong with mine, but no matter which one I choose trim doesn't work at all on my stick. I have thew control window up and when I push the trim button, the grey diamond moves to the position, but the helo always moves back. When I hit the button my pedals trim perfectly like the grey line moves and the red line will stay with the grey line and the ship stays trimmed to my pedals, but the red diamond for my stick always goes right back to center even though the grey diamond stays in the trimmed position and the nose of the helo always shoots up and wont stay in the trimmed position. I have tried every option for trimming the stick but it just doesn't work. Why the pedals trim but the stick wont is crazy!

FFB is the way lol. You can go cheap or expensive, just means you can keep that FT switch off and fly her seamlessly

OMG how about the air bags that deploy on hard ground impact!!! Thats funny as shit

Is there a mode where you can hold the button while flying around and then release the button at the same time (or just before) you let go of the stick? Like a “ignore my stick movement unless I press the button” mode? It would need to be learned behavior and not everyone has a free button/finger but I’m mostly just curious.

I've been playing Microsoft Flight simulator a lot more recently and I really like their solution to trim on helicopters- there's essentially a second set of trim controls that are just much more aggressive with the cyclic and it just works pretty well for setting up a cruise on a heavily sprung stick. But I've never used it in really dynamic flight conditions and FS's helicopter simulation is not the best to begin with so the fade in/fade out trim probably looks the best option.

Would you reccommend having the control input window open as a matter of routine on DCS to cross reference what the stick's actually doing in the sim?

What cams and springs do you use with your GF3? Also, is it the Ultimate?

The primary reason that KW pilots do not fly with force trim on all the time is because you have to use your thumb on the Force Trim Interrupt switch on the cyclic to momentarily disengage the force trim. In combat (or training) that same thumb is used to activate the Weapon's Fire Switch. So, when you suddenly get engaged by the enemy, you may need to evade incoming fire and/or immediately employ weapons on target. It's hard to hit both switches simultaneously, as OH-58D pilots were only issued one thumb per hand.

(Reposting this from my answer to a question below. Seemed worthy of an its own comment).

I've used instant trim on helicopters in sims for years and am very used to it. I saw the "fade in/out" option in the trim options and didn't bother messing with it since I wasn't familiar with what it meant. Glad I saw your explanation on it, definitely going to try it now. Seems like instant trim but better, letting you get smoother transitions.

"And then we explode." why was this so funny to me

Got a FFB Rhino.

Gotta say, I’m liking playing it with force trim turned off like you said. I only flew the first time with it on, shut it off and won’t ever go back. The easy, natural control and stable helicopter makes it like an extension of yourself in a way I’ve never felt in other modules.

Its easy to fly the kiowa! The easiest helo in the dcs world! 👍

So is anyone else having a problem when loaded with 4 hellfires? The aircraft seems to roll very aggressively. I've turned down the y axis saturation to 60 and it's still very aggressive. I know the missles have some weight and are out of centerline but it seems like a lot.

Superb video mate!

Who does your video thumbnails man 😂

How are any of these settings affected if you use a FFB stick Casmo?

Thanks for the visuals and explanation on this. Was really confused.

I Found the airbags!

As a force feedback stick user. I love force feedback in helicopters.

I don't have this and have no need for this video, but that cover photo is perfection. Chef's kiss

i use the instant, its like the Huey and what I'm used to.

Admittedly, I've only flown the thing for an hour so far, but what's trim? I didn't even know I needed it lol🤣
Using Virpil MongoosT-50 CM3 base (dead stick configuration) and grip 🤷‍♂
EDIT: just scrolled through some of the earlier comments and saw this mentioned by @C6v1999.
Like you said in the video, it's all hardware dependent. Great job again with the video, thanks!

uh oh..the thumbnails are getting good.

I am using the Thrust Master set, the stick, throttle and pedals. Not a bad set for entry level, the throttle is actually really good. The stick has a very stiff spring that will wear your arm out if you have to hold it. But other than that, decent stick. The pedals are the weak link. They're the slider type and they suck for precision movements. The real push/pull is where it's at, and on order. I have an old Satek that I removed the spring altogether. I just flops around like a wet noodle. It's almost as bad as the stiff spring type. I need one where it's adjustable and easy to change depending on the aircraft. Flying the F-16 you want stiff. Flying the Kiowa you want more loosey goosey. Anyone know what brand makes one?

Have you had a chance to look at the AI Pilot options yet Casmo?
Apologies, found your video about said topic.

Thanks so much keep the OH-58D videos coming you are the best 😊

Hello. Does this work with spring centering joystick too?

Main takeaways:
- Central trimmer will kill you sooner or later - use instant trim or buy a real force feedback stick
- Uncheck FFB under settings if you do not have one.

Of course every seasoned DCS player knows these.

Hey Casmo, Great series on the Kiowa! I’ll be jumping in as soon as I finish them all! Thanks for all your work for us and DCS. Quick question: I fly the Huey a lot and am very happy with its “ default” trim setting. Which Kiowa setting is that the closest to? Many Thanks!

in ED helicopters instant trim is a bit different. It gives you ~1,5 second after button press before moving neutral position to new place

that EADI color is terrible, never flew the D but sat a lot of left seat in the A back in 84 Wiesbaden with my FS stick buddy from another unit next door, watching this video I am catching myself looking at the stdy`s and not the EADI for Att, AS and alt...

Tbf you kept pressing the trim button on purpose in central trimmer mode

Fade in/out trim needs to be done for the AH64, its the best of both worlds ! thanks for the comprehensive video !

The thumbnail is hilarious! 😂

pedal trim pls i beg u

😮 i need that fade in fade out for the AH64 ...in my opinion this is the most natural movement

It's amazing how setting up just one button can make your game playable. For me it was the scroll wheel on the MMS. Had to slow it way down to make adjustments accurate. Now the module is a pure joy.

But trim does NOT work at all...
Most people I know, the trim just won't work - although after a lot of setting/ unsetting/ trying things at least my Rudder will now trim... But the Stick just will not trim at all!

Which role does SCAS Heading Hold play? I see it works, but it has only little impact, its not real hold mode, just support for Trim force, right?

Hello, my friend. Did you have service in Iraq, specifically in southern Baghdad in Doura and the rest of the areas of responsibility, in addition to the governorates of Diyala, Anbar, Salah al-Din, Kirkuk, and Hawija?

ED is sickening, cowards, frauds, thieves, cheats and pieces of sh*t. I'm finished with their busted ass buggy garbage. I've already been in contact with an attorney, explained and shared public information with them. And their consensus is that ED is responsible for, #1 maintaining and developing the product that was and still is being marketed and sold by them.
#2 Immediately pulling the products in question, from their storefront. And, refunding the money to all customers who purchased the modules under deceptive marketing tactics. Seeing as how they were sold as incomplete products that would be supported and developed until completion.
I am sitting on the suit to allow the dominoes to fall and other customers to attach their names to the suit.
It's no longer about the money, it's the principal. ED is finished, and after this cowardly move. They deserve to be abandoned by everyone and to implode.
The censorship of community members, on the official forum, is CRAZY. Ever since this situation came to light. I have been posting questions and asking how to go about getting a refund after buying a newly released and abandoned piece of software. Since it is a stipulation of the purchase agreement, that a module will be developed until completion and also be maintained for the life of the DCS platform. But, every topic I start, or question I ask about customers being compensated. Gets locked or removed.

Thank you

For me it seems all the options do the same thing. Return the stick to center. The new center point will be where I set it, but my actual stick, since it has springs, moves back to center and in game to. There’s no recognition

Thank you, sir, for this...I have been looking for how to trim her in flight, this is exactly what I was looking for

GREAT video. THANK YOU!!

How does it work in real life? Is it just like fixed wing where you apply the trim and you just feel the force go away but you're still holding it in the same spot? Or something else.

i'm getting lost. there are so many keybind with "trim". can someone please let me know which one is the one i need to actually trim?!