Royal Fleet Auxiliary Going on Strike? | Issues with Military Sealift Command!

"problem is not the money" heard that one before

Why does the pay for "flexible work schedule" positions seem so much lower? Thank you Sal!

Edit: "mixed work schedule"

When I was with MSC the assignments were for 1 year with only 1 month off afterwards. That was back during the Viet Nam conflict. Still, it was better than being drafted and dropped off in a rice paddy with an M-16.

Sal, I really enjoyed this posting from your regular shipping news channel. I try to be informed about current affairs in the United Kingdom where I live but I have not heard anything about this impending strike from crews on the Royal Auxiliary Fleet. The unions you mention are well known for agitation and are currently ranking up ongoing strikes on rail transport (mainline and underground) - strikes which have already been running off and on for a year - but I have not heard anything regarding the maritime issue. You explained the issues so coherently that even I as a complete landlubber can say I understand it. Thank you for your excellent reporting and making these matters relevant to us all. Finally, may I say the unions involved could do themselves (and the rest of the population) a favour by adopting you as their negotiator or at least their number one advisor! Best regards from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Sounds like there may unfortunately be more Houthi action against shipping and US Naval assets in the Bab el-Mandeb Strait.

Eager for your next one, the Red Sea has gone hot!

Obvious question: why isn't military Sealift an integral part of each countries' Navy? It is an integral part of each Navy's mission.

This is similar to the US railroad workers' situation. Decent pay, but on call 24/7 with 1-2 hour reporting requirements. No allowance for doctor appointments, kids graduation, sick days etc. The admin tried to buy them off with wages, but the work rule issues remain.

How can it be that American Mariners cannot strike for wages but can walk off a ship rather than go on a risky deployment?

Not a mariner myself but know one and was told crewing a U.S. Military ship doesn’t pay well.

Got to meet Rear Admiral Sobeck the other day it sounded like he is very aware of the issues with MSC right now and they are looking into multiple solutions. Tho as with anything with MSC I will believe it when I see it.

Sal, I can't imagine why your Wife would ever ask you back to sea and miss seeing those fantastic shirts you wear! This is a definite 10 !!😄

At a minimum they need to go to a two month on and off.

Good video. I'd say a big reason the pay is so bad is that because employment opportunities and job security are non existent for civillian British seamen, especially ratings, who have almost no alternative employers outside of the RFA because unlike the US, our British flagged ships are almost entirely foreign crewed and absolutely none of them employ British ratings and the majority now don't even have a single British officer or captain.
I went to sea at the age of 16 back in 2000 and it was a monumental struggle to get any kind of employment even then as a deckhand. My last ship was in 2004 just before I turned 20 and I was the last British rating in the entire company. My Filipino colleagues at the time where paid $800USD per month and did 10 month contracts before having a month or two at home.
I was actually accepted to join the RFA in 2003 and completed some of the land based training but saw that there was no secure future to be had as a British seaman so dropped out.
I soon after became a truck driver and in 2009 moved to Canada and as a truck driver earn considerably more than some deck officers in the RFA, which is crazy when you consider the time involved in getting your mates ticket and the huge level of training and expertise they have in comparison to what I do.

I worked for MSC for seven years, and learned a lot, and would consider going back only if they offered equal time. Being away from home for 6-10 months at a time just wasn’t worth it, especially since you can be 1-2 months in the pool waiting for a ship or in training which only adds to the time you would spend away from home. The whole gangway up policy was the final straw for me, since it really showed that we were just second rate citizens to the shore side office and Navy. Currently working for the union making just as much as I was at MSC and only working 6 months out of the year with a set schedule.

As mentioned in another comment, MSC CIVMAR a can not strike IAW Secy Navy instructions. Those are like Navy Regs to sailors

What most folks do not know is that the size of crews on MSC ships is strictly tied to the manning document plus a percentage times the number of USNS ships. The budget people play games with funding for that number. It changes almost every year. So instead of having a full crew, MSC may NOT be funded to hire enough crew.

I had no idea that civilians crewed the support ships. Your right that is a major problem for both countries to solve. They need those people as much as they need the military personnel. One can't do the job without the other. Thanks for putting this out there. I learn something from you everytime. Thanks for what you do.

I'm an American working for the Israeli government for crappy pay and second class citizenship. Yep. Exactly. Not going to get blown up for this shit

I think the advertised wages are artificially low as they can only advertise the base salary not any at sea/ deployment pay (it is still crap, but not quite as crap as advertised). This also includes 21 days paid leave for every month at sea, so the leave entitlement is quite a lot better.
Secondly, politics is a major problem. The RMT is highly politicised and is a significant financial donor to the Labour party who are currently in opposition. The RMT are openly politically opposed to the governing Conservative party and have recently been organising large numbers of highly disruptive strikes in order to destabilise the government ahead of next years general election. So whilst pay may be crap, there is also a significant political element to this.

Great video and discussion. Got out of MSC last year. The tours were getting longer and the time off was getting shorter. Had enough after 20+ yrs. On my departing questionairre I did suggest an increase to that insulting overdue ‘award’ from $25/day (hadn’t changed in 10+ yrs.) to something closer to $100/day and increases $50/day after each month. That would probably reduce the number of 107’s as well, if there was real $$$ involved. That money needs to come from the office budget, not from the ship, as I believe it currently stands. Doesn't solve the manning problem, but at least takes some of the sting out.

Sea counter should commence the day you set foot in the pool. Unless you live in Norfolk or San Diego, you’re basically in limbo, sometimes for weeks/months on end. Recruiting really should scout more than 10 miles outside of the Norfolk radius, they’re just trying to get warm bodies in the pipeline, regardless of talent or maturity. MSC needs skilled workers, it’s not well suited for raising other people’s children. That’s what the navy’s for. Plenty of vocational schools, community colleges and other avenues that could bring in at least semi-skilled workers. I think if more young people around the country were aware of this as a career choice, they would probably give it a shot.

I had a blast in MSC, but was getting harder on the family, 8-10 months overseas and within 2 weeks of getting home office is calling for when I will come back. Gangway up was probably the final straw, nothing shouted ‘the mariner doesn’t matter’ louder than that ridiculous ordeal. I know Buzby wouldn’t have done us that way, but the two jet jockeys really did a number on the organization. Have higher hopes for the new guy, seems like he at least has a clue.

If the situation gets hot, the Governments of both the US and the UK will legalise conscription for MSC and RFA crews.

Pretty sure those MSC salaries aren't actually counted by "year".

And I'm not sure how it was when you were there Sal, but definitely wouldn't touch MSC with a ten foot pole as an average union sailor.

I see with a lot of America military they can be away for a couple of years. The UK tend to do that a few months at a time.

Thanks!

SIMPLE FIX CREW MSC WITH NAVY CREWS, MAKE THEM NAVY SHIPS THEN YOU CAN PUT NAVAL CREWS RUNNING THEM, USE PERSONAL THAT CAN'T MAKE IT ON THE STRESSFUL NAVY SHIPS PUT THEM HAUL CARGO. NAVY USED TO HAUL THEIR OWN STUFF

Thanks for the episode. I was born in the UK but have lived and grown up in New Zealand. I’ve always liked the RFA for the reasons you’d mentioned, and thought about moving back to blighty to join up. I’m studying marine engineering here in NZ next year and I have to say that I feel vindicated in my decision not to… cheers.

If MSC could hand the USS ships back to the Navy, that would solve much of the issue (ie command ship, tenders, ESB's) MSC is spread to thin. The CIVMAR footprint on the tenders and command ship is HUGE, much higher than the average tanker or AKE.

The navy is laying up more ships than they are building right now (ie LCS’s, Ticos, etc..) That should free up the manpower to put back on their own ships, with plenty to spare.

MSC needs to get back to focusing on their core competence, UNREP and logistical support, on USNS ships with a Master in charge. They should NOT be on USS ships under the command of a Navy CO. A lot of issues there, not just manning.

oilers should not be civilian manned. USN bureaucracy and maintenance needs to be overhauled to increase efficiency and cut cost.

As a past R.F.A. sailor on the "Wave Victor", "Wave Conqueror ", and "Eddy Firth" 1956 onwards. I was totally satisfied with my position and work, and conditions. Yes we had some trying times, lots of time in port, with no time on time off, that came later if at all.

WAGES in the UK ,, SUCK...

Love these videos thanks

If they strike, there will be a court order ordering them back to work in two minutes.

In US war time history, our country has been served heroically by merchant mariners. Many times I have heard about the millions of tons of cargo vessels sunk by U boats in the WW2 battle of the Atlantic and the incredible actions to build more Liberty ships but I don’t recall hearing about how many civilian seamen were lost. My questions: How dangerous and difficult were these wartime merchant marine jobs? Is the idea of crewing Auxiliary ships with civilians only more history? What is the DOD plan for retaining the critical crews of Sealift ships if major conflict does breakout? Beyond Sealift, there will be critical needs for civilian vessels to go in harms way. Can we count on US flagged ships and their crews? Are there enough ocean going commercial ships?

Even if you were able to get the funding to hire more mariners where would you find them? They don't exist and won't exist because the time and expense of training and licensing are prohibitive. After spending months at sea working, a mariner has to spend all his paycheck and all his time off training and testing to get the next upgrade or to maintain his current license.

Thanks for making videos about these issues the pay, the leave, and we have barely had any time in port this deployment. Most old schoolers are calling this the worst deployment ever. Haven’t had a off day in 6 months because I want to save my days up for when I go on leave. The leave time accumulated should be doubled. Barely have enough time to cover you while you’re at home. The crew walks around looking like Zombies they are so burnt out most days.

You can't compare UK wages to US wages as UK wages in every industry they are much lower. I used to work in telecom's, in 2000 I earned approximated £30k per year in the UK and when I went to the US and my wage tripled to $90k pa. On returning to the UK in 2015 the wage was still around £30K (due to EU sending all it's Eastern European to work in the UK accepting lower wages). The UK has low wages and is expensive to live.

The RFA will not be going on strike. There aren't enough ratings in the RMT, and if they did want to strike, the ships would put to sea where they can not strike. Any ship alongside unable to sail would still function, and, union members would not be working or getting paid for the strikes duration. Pointless.

i worked with the RFA 20 years ago and served for almost 10 years, its a young single mans game. 5 months away 2 months home. If your stationed somewhere nice, you could extend the time away, say 6 months, and claim all of your tax back for the year. I would leave the ship in Port Canaveral US, take local leave, have fun, then fly home with plenty of £££ in the bank. I loved the life. And miss it. <As a footnote, the MSC are "dry" ships (no alcohol) while the RFA had a fully stocked 24hr bar. lol

Don't forget that in the RFA you do, usually, 4 months on and then get 3 months off. On average, you only spend 7 months a year on a ship.

I survived 30 years with msc. I left when the minuses began to outweigh the plusses.
For some reason, msc refuses to adopt the commercial model, irt pay, tour length, vacation schedules, etc.
Dont just blame the Civil Service regulations for the shortcomings in CIVMAR Quality of life. The CIVMAR force has to push back to implement reform.

Another terrific show Sal! As a woman and human being, I'm terribly disappointed to hear about the rape aboard the Amelia Earhart T-AKE 6 as I worked on the construction of all 14 "Lewis & Clark" class ships for MSC. I did consider joining MSC at one point in my life, but there are the quality of life issues that you mentioned. And while it is sad that there are many terrible things that take place onboard, at sea and in the industry, I am so glad that there are men such as yourself willing to talk about them and bring light to these subjects!

when I worked for MSC I was hired in 1977 and was told we was extremely low as compared as Commerical

....So not an employer of choice...

I love Military Sealift Command. I do 9 months on and 3 months off. Sure there are things that can improve but what job can’t make improvements. Roughly 35-40% of MSC’s crew are prior military so we will always be there to do the job. When I sailed onboard the U.S.S. Saipan (LHA-2), it prepared me perfectly for MSC. Due to the fact that we worked non stop, regardless of your department and we were typically out for 10 months at a time. I know someone who works for Google. He’s an engineer and makes good money but he works an insane amount of hours and is constantly under pressure. Name me a legal job that pays well that doesn’t have above average requirements. As far as the British merchants are concerned. It’s my understanding that there is a particular family over that takes in an uncountable amount of money each day. Perhaps they are willing to share the wealth with their mariners! Pip, pip & cheerio!

Most poeple in the UK are criminally underpaid, the public sector is one of the worst. The current government has cut funding continuously over the last 14 years. I'm glad people are starting to stand up for themselves and demand inflation matching pay rises!

How can MSC hire more people, when they hire people, treat them like shit, then they quit after 1 tour? The leave is 1 thing,but people are quitting becaus they get treated bad,by the office.

Yeah it’s pretty rough and lots of us are leaving in droves even the previous commodore told us “if you don’t like it (the tiny pay rise) then leave” so shockingly they did! but still a few of us are trying to stick on either for the pride of the job or to ride out till retirement that about it though! And the union are rather handicapped by government laws and by the fact it’s disjointed, us ratings have already gone on strike back in June but it wasn’t reported!

If the RFA works the same way the British Merchant Navy back in the 80's we were paid for the whole year, we got leave at the rate of 2 on and 1 off, and paid whilst on leave and on study leave with college and exam fees being paid by the company. We may have worked 8 hours a day at sea, but in port , worked maybe 6 hours and only Saturday and Sunday mornings, if most of the work was done, Sunday would be off in port. We didn't work overtime for overtime sake as we weren't paid it, but if a disaster happened you would work to get the ship underway again and have a bit of time off to cover for that . As later ships were UMS this worked, everbody was on day work, so there were no field days. Bunkering and standbys under pilotage could be long, but you knocked off early before them to get some shut eye and afterwards maybe. There is no point in everybody being worn and tired out, this is when accidents happen as we are seeing via some of your programs.
An entry level Engineer officer could be a Junior Engineer having just finished his apprenticeship ashore, so £37k is not bad , but say a 2nd Engineer Officer, 1 rank below the Chief Engineer would expect close to £100k at a guess. I was earning about 3/4 of Starting Chiefs salary as 2nd Engineer Officer, this would creep up with seniority payments and superior Certificate such as Chief Engineers Certificate , but sailing as 2nd. We were all paid quite well. In those days a 40oz bottle of spirits was £2 as it was tax free, 200 cigarettes same price, not that drank that much or smoked at all. Both Officers and Crew had their own bar in their sections of their accomodation and ran them themselves.
Britain like the US does not have a Merchant Navy as it used to. The RFA is the closest we have got now, so there is not a pool of men from the commercial sector to entice, plus if you were on a Merchant ship you are well away from hostilities, good ports sometimes with parties on board in the evenings with local nurses etc. It was a grand life before the demise . We used to say we worked hard and played hard and some drunk hard as well but always turned to.
You cannot compare salary £-$ conversion. We don't have to pay health insurance each year , just part of our taxes pays for that. Cost of living in each country or even different parts of the US is different