Short Barrels 9mm+P VS .38 Special+P Speer Gold Dot Ballistic Test

I love your videos, watching time to time your videos like a library for anyone essentially, I personally have great respect for your work, honestly have not seen anyone doing this like an acedemic/ lab. degree archiving level like you do basically. I have searched the internet and articles to find out basically why 38 special cartridge was developed in the first place , you certainly know all this much better though, but it was evidently developed for the need of a more powerful cartridge than 38 long colt which was firing 140-160 grain bullets at 850 fps. ++ Only lead bullets though at that time maybe that’s why the low pressures with the 38 special replacements. For me one evident of standard pressure power of 38 special to support the reality for comparison of the 38 special rounds for all times with anything basically was in your years ago/past demonstrations one of which was the buffalo bore 158 grain lead semi was cutter hollow point LSWCHP standard pressure ( I think you did not do this round’s standard pressure version, you’d be surprised with what you’ll see 850 fps average with the shortest 1, 7/8” barrel) and another one was the buffalo bore lead free Barnes TAC XP standard pressure rounds (as far as I remember was pushing 1075 fps in 38 special short barrel), It would be very interesting to see how they would perform in your ballistics gel setup indeed… thanks & Be safe …

It really looks like clear gelatin does not expand bullets as well as the real organic gelatin. Lucky Gunner also did a ton of pistol caliber testing in clear gelatin and had a lot of failures to expand. Yet when you shoot the same ammo into the real organic calibrated gelatin is expands 100%. Also, Paul Harrel gets reliable expansions in his meat target of the very same bullets that fail to expand in the clear gel. Another problem with the clear gel is that it exaggerates temporary cavity. I really like your videos, and I've been a long time subscriber, but my honest opinion is that clear gel testing is not an accurate approximation of terminal performance. I guess as long as people are aware that the clear gel is not an accurate representation, it's better than nothing, so thanks for the video anyways!

Odd how these perform depending on the material/intended target they hit. I guess it would be ideal to carry both of them and make your judgement call accordingly regarding which of the two to use. I don't own a micro 9mm yet, but this is just my take on this subject.

That was another very informative video and great presentation. The velocities from the short barreled 9mm was a lot higher than I expected. The 38 was about where I thought they would be. Not overly impressive but at 3-7 feet I'm sure it'll get the job done.
Thanks for all the hard work and for making learning fun

I like your test medium! Nice presentation. Did you say the Snubbie had less felt recoil? Surprised by that.

I’m wondering if the one that didn’t expand tumbled . Still a decent load that’s what I carry in my LCR👍

I've been running these Gold Dot 38s in my airweights and I have to say, for +P ammo, there isn't much more recoil than say standard 158 grain loads. Good to see how these perform and another good test that shows the 38 as a round where less can be more. Personally if you are an apartment dweller like me, the slower round might slow down faster if you miss your target.

Good and interesting video. Take care.

Sam…. Long time fan really respect your work off hand would know how much a difference there is between the short barrel gold dot load and the original ? The nypd made the .38 gold dot specifically for snubs and service of the day but did Speer tweek it?

When this .38 round came out, it was hailed by all to be the best round ever. Based on this test I would say it's a decent round, but I'm still searching for snub load.

Cool video thanks.

I have always wondered about 9mm vs 38spl. Your videos are great Sam. Thanks

I always find it intriguing when (assuming I'm interpreting things right) a lower powered .38 special does about as much damage and/or performs as well overall as a more powerful round. Boggles my mind. Maybe when the British decided a heavy .38 S&W was as good as a .455 they were on to something.
... And I'm rambling again, LOL.
Great video, lots of good info.

Another excellent video! If I had land in the country I'd make a few videos myself. But I don't. I've watched many of your videos and know you love the 327mag as a carry gun. Mine is the 45acp. But I do have a cartridge that I like very much. I carried it for 17 years. Most people think negative about it and say it's a waste for whatever reason they want. But it is only 120 foot pounds less power than a full power 10mm. The major draw back of the cartridge is bullet setback making a higher pressure. Like a 357 Sig cartridge. It's 400 Corbon!! What I like is you can just do a barrel change and it works in a 45 acp handgun. It's a 45acp necked down to 40! It's versatile, 135g, 150g, 165g. I carried it because I can shoot it really well and the power is very good. Underwood makes a great round for this caliber. 135g 1500fps 674fp energy! If you ever get a test barrel or gun for it oll send you some boxes of test rounds..

Good review, thanks. That's what I carry in my 2" snubnose.

Short Barrels 👍

9mm good results while the 38 was disappointing for me and unimpressive. I am not sure I coukd recommend them to anyone I know & love who carries a 38 snubby for self defense. Don't misunderstand it isn't a complete failure I would look elsewhere for more consistent expansion if I want an expanding bullet. Thank you for demonstration & data.

I really like 3" in a revolver if possible , my 44 sp only has 2.5" that is still 25 % longer 50% longer would be better . If all you have is a 2" then don't expect 4" results. Better than a sharp stick & you have no safety to mess with . I would take the revolver over that auto . I like a DA/SA 4" with no safety best for a small 9mm . After that G17 is a great choice .

Not sure if you’ve done it but am curious how the 158 grn lead semi wad cutter hollow point fbi load stacks up against a147 grn 9mm out of the short barrels. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for dealing with the cold , 9mm not bad at all. However I'm still in on the 38spl. Have 2 different I'm good with . Appreciate you sir. Always looking for next. Have a warm weekend. Lol maybe stay inside.

Good test. The 135 +p gold dot is the issued load for my department if you carry a 38 for back up. I usually carry a colt cobra or S&w 642-1. I qualify with it no problem. My primary carry is a Glock 17 with 147 grain HST standard pressure.

My son had that Taurus in 45 it wouldn't hit the barn from inside .I'm just a old school wheel gunner lol

When I bought my S&W 686 (4-inch barrel) I bought 6 boxes of .357 and 6 boxes of .38 SPL in "basic" loads. I tested the POA and POI in the .357 Mag to find the one I liked. Then I tested the same in .38 SPL to find one that had nearly identical patterning. That is what I run for training and EDC. The results were .357 Mag 147 grain Remington soft hollow points and 124 grain Federal SJP hollow points. That is me with my gun. Your results may vary.

I agree. I don't see much difference in the 2 calibers. Great video

For the 38sp. What about the 110-125 and the 158gn bullets?
I reload for both the 38sp and the 357mag. Using the XTP bullets in the 125 & 158 grain, also the same bullet weights using a HCLSWC. The HCLSWC 158gn loaded for a 22in barrel single shot break action 357 magnum rifle, a 3x9x40 scope.
Went after wild pigs. One shot 100 yards dropped a 153lb pig like a sack of taters. Placed the shot right behind the ear, smashed the base of the skull, he didn't even take a step, just fell over.
Having a side arm and a rifle that uses the same ammo seems the way to go.
Side arm is a CA, 4", SS, 5 shot and the rifle is Traditions G2 with a 22in barrel. Loading for them is different, the rifle can handle much higher pressures than the pistol.
The MagTec 158 HJSP is a real bear in the pistol, thru the rifle, close to the performance of the 30-30 150 load.
With the 22in Barrel rifle you can expect an increase between 250 and 500 fps.

U should test the underwood ammo 45 long colt I think it would be interesting

Interesting. Good shooting. I carry Horday’s 115g 9mm and 38spl and 357mg - rem HTP’s.

Question: Does the sub-freezing temperature affect gel density or hollow point expansion? Would the ballistics results be significantly different at summer temperatures?

jeez I hope that john correia guy dosent give you shit for these awesome gel test setups but then again he might not speak up anymore after a Paul Harrel Rebuttal lmao

That 9mm did really well out of that small gun. That little gun must have been tough to hold on to with the gloves. That weather looks rough man! Permafrost tundra! Thanks for the vid Sam!

This was exactly the video I wanted to see. Thanks you

BUT ! with the revolver, you don't need to pick up your shell casing. This gives you several seconds to flee😉 after you shoot that Antifa/BLM, 💩🦜 THAT needed shooting😉

Those gold dot +P 38’s are the exact round my department issues and MANDATES for use in our back-up 2” wheel guns. We can’t carry anything else. We’ve had that round for 20 years and my department weapons training staff acknowledges that it doesn’t expand at all, but does penetrate okay. It’s very disappointing otherwise in overall performance. . However I will say that the few shootings we’ve had over the years with that round and out of a 2” revolver, it’s worked to put the bad guy down every time. But I credit that to shot placement at close range alone.

nuice

Another great production Sam. When it all comes down to it, a decent 9 and a decent .38 will both quite rapidly change the behavior of any nare do well. I like your detailed analysis though. Although I do recognize the differences among loads I feel well protected with essentially any name brand hollow point in any of my firearms. Home protection is Hornaday 125gr .357 FTX. Is there bigger and badder? Yup, but will what I use work? Also yup. Am I way off base with my humble opinion?

Interesting. My first thought was Burrr! Then I wondered if the gel was frozen. But I have never done any shooting when there was white stuff on the ground and I had to wear a parka, watch cap and gloves. Wondering how the results would differ in 60-70 degree temps.

I'd really like to see these sort of tests done with a 3" barrel considering Taurus offers the 605 & 856 in 3". Smith has the model 60. And I think Colt also offers a 3" with their Cobra. It would compare well against the 3+" barrel of the modern compacts

38 special psi 17,000
9mm luger psi 36,500

it matters

I revisited this vid. I'm working on reloading a good self-defense 38sp. So far I 'm liking a 110grn Hornady XTP over 6.5grns of Unique. From a 3 inch barrel it's a little over 1,000fps and 255 foot pounds of energy. It was contained in three milk jugs. Just some FYI from another Michigander.

Great test, thank you. It proves what most gun enthusiasts already know.

Underwood 125 grain +p XTP or Corbon 110 DPX +P in my 442 smith with a crimson trace laser grip on it .

Winter gloves can make small guns squirm during trigger pull. I don't think you would have missed without gloves.

Still binge watching…… ur revolver vids are the best. By FAR!!! still going with 110gr Hornady CD +P thanks to all ur vids. Order came in the mail 2 days ago.
I also ordered 90gr Honnady CD for my 380. Now I’m questioning that choice. Think I’ll switch to Underwood / Leigh High Xtreme Defender. I just don’t see that little 380 opening up.

More MDF Real World/Real Gel Proof 9mm 124+p ur 3.2" 16.5 .544=3.84 cu in" Tissue Crush compares to 4" Vista REAL GEL 14.13 .60=4.04 cu in" TC . This .38 load 2" 12" .508=2.43" vs Vista Real Gel 11" .576=2.87 from 4v"

I have two boxes of the135 grain +P. The box says Law Enforcement, not personal protection or Short Barrel. I'm wondering how much my velocity would differ from the short barrel version, and if they use a softer lead formulation for the short barrel.

This test demonstrated the 9mm is the overwhelmingly clear choice in every way over the .38 snubby. Sam has a bias for his revolvers, and I understand that, I like em too. However it's obvious which is the better choice. The 9mm out performed the .38 in every way in the short barreled self defense guns. Not to mention the round count advantage with the auto loader, and if you run +P+ 9mm you'll get even more energy outa the 9. Jus Sayin.

Only way to make this video better would be same test but add the 357 short barrel load into the mix and use 9mm revolver as well

So, I didn't point it out at first, just waiting to see how many "you lean back" comments I got on this one. This is the first video I ever used the Linear lens setting for. The Linear is very close to a standard non stretched lens, as where my previous videos were all widescreen stretching my upper back to the edge making me look like I was leaning back. The only downside is it looks like I am much closer to the camera while my camera position has not changed.