Star Citizen Player Bases? PVP & Defense

large powerful org wins, small weak org loses..... no shit

i think they should invert the whole shield thing and have a moderate payment for shields to get applied .. and if someone wants to attack your station they need to do an elaborate hacking of multiple shield locations that will span multiple hours worth of "NPC-driven" events to get them to lower the shields on a particular station in a system .. so that who ever gets attacked has ample time to prepare for it .. and preferably in a time window that is not in the middle of the night ... i am sure that CiG can enable us to run a station on a "local time base" that will also dictate the time interval where such a station could become vulnerable .. and that should preferably be in a window that the owning org can influence to just mean "we are open for PVP from 18h through 22h .. so there are 4 hours worth of time .. the attacking org can see when that time will be by hacking their way into the shield system to get the info .. and then start hacking their way into lowering the shields at that vulnerable time. .. this also means PVP can happens in this 4 hours long window .. i think 4h is a good window for a decent PVP session. .. if that is still too much time for being "vulnerable" .. then that hack could have maybe a 3 day cooldown aswell .. so you can only be attacked every 3 days isntead of every day ..
((( i am basing this on how often WOW raids happen btw .. most guilds in wow do two or three raid days a week .. each about 3-4h long. .. so that is sort of established as "working" with a lot of people )))

-- but actually .. i think the shield should be projected from the ground station below it .. forcing a ground assault (- and vice versa a good ground defense -) to disable the shields first.

its just gonna be Rust in space

Literally only the most powerful, dedicated and resourceful orgs are supposed to have and maintain stations. That's how they manage the number of stations. If every org had a chance to run stations, there would be to many stations. It's designed not to be fair for a reason.

For the smaller teams there will have to be hired NPC's for extra help and security. Also having NPC's on your ship turrets while mining or delivering and when offline having NPC's walking perimeters of bases.

why dont they just fucking hire you.

This isnt a complex solution. Siege windows is a thing in many MMOs. Defenders pick their siege window. Attackers declare. Fight starts 24 hours later. Siege window is typically 2-3 hours game depending. Declaring costs heavy resources. Declaring makes your base vulnerable too. EASY PZ

I know that this thinking might upset players and I’m talking about mostly lawless space but I think if it’s gonna be a sandbox game it should be more like rust and not have invulnerability windows at all.

everything should be vulnerable at all times and it’s up to you the player to prepare for this event.
there should be significant automatic defences that you The player can build to defend yourself with during the night and it’s up to the attacker to overcome your auto defences and whoever is currently online.

keep in mind the stations are for orgs not individual players it’s up to the org to manage who you recruit so you could recruit people from a different time zone.
If your house is broken into you can’t just tell the attacker “erm actually my invulnerability window is up” you have to contend with him you have no choice If you live in the sticks.
Will it suck to get offlined yes but it’s a natural consequence of living in a sandbox where the devs don’t hold your hand.

This is only Theory crafting. This mechanic is still years away. Who knows what it will be in real then.

Spot on, with you 100%. SUGGESTION for CIG, offer a form of obtainable "Clocking shield" for bases, IF Nobody is there Activity & Heat signatures are non existent therefore the Base does not show in game, unless there is a high enough activity signal based on active player/s at the base, Edit: a larger base logically will need more active players to give off detectible Activity vs a small base. Really enjoy your Vids, perfect logic every time! 🚀

Hope, Hope, Hope, Hope Everwhere, keep spend money on this scam project.... :D

This whole token-king-of-the-hill-stuff is just too convoluted. Keep it simple: all bases have impenetrable shields. For a few hours each day these need to be powered down for maintenance. During those hours you can be attacked. That's it.

It is like always, last minute they mash something together present it as THE solution, but in reality they still have no clue after more than 12 years.
With the statement "This game universe is for everyone" means this universe is for no one, and they don't get it, because they want the money.

CIG are just NPCs standing on a table , they need to ask a human how things should be or work . good work as allways nr1

its simple like in conquerors blade game. every tuesday and saturday night 8pm to 9pm is clan battle time where we can fight for territory. In sc this will be longer i guess.

shields are a top down enforced mcguffin. meaning, it does not actually work.
There is only an arbitrary condition towards orgs need to sacrifice for, like to an far removed elder horror/deity, and if you are amog the higher ranking of groups that managed to querry favor, that deity dispenses its blessing to you.

CIGs ideas are dumb and bad, per the usual, but the station tech wont be in game until 2030 at the earliest, so I'm not worried about it for now. Absolutely everything they showed this year won't even have real work done on it (meaning I'll see it as a casual player) until after SQ42 is fully launched.

As far as stations go I'm gonna pull from two ideas - one is a video game that is legendary for it's market (and it's not EVE) and the other is from my own experience and thoughts - and together I think they would be the best system for SC's station and POS gameplay.

First, the economy. We'll use that to group players into categories by the number of players.
Players need to have something to "farm" to contribute to the greater economy. Every player of every group of every size needs to have a thing (item or resource) that is NEEDED for the economy to function. The best game I have ever seen to illustrate this is the market for a French MMO called Dofus. It's economy is better than Black Desert Online, it's better than EVE. It's even better than their own sequel game, Wakfu. They have found the perfect balance of materials needed from each segment of the game - through each gamestage - that all support players across the entire economy.

The trick to making it work for SC will be to have groups of players of varying sizes control each resource so that, quite literally, everyone doing anything will contribute to the larger economy.

As for my own ideas I really like the design principle of the 1-3-5 OoM rule, so we'll use that here. Break down of players:
1 player -Group one
3 players -Group two
5 players -Group three
10 "
30 "
50 "
100 "
300 "
500 "
1,000 "
3,000 "
5,000 " -Group twelve

That's 12 groups that have some unique resource that is needed to contribute to manufacturing and further the economy. That's not hard at all to do. Wood, copper, minerals, food, rare gemstones, rare animal parts or the animals themselves - these things have been taken care of in a myriad of different games. Just make them related to the difficulty of how much time it would take against how many people in the org would need to contribute.

For Example: A single rare gemstone might be needed to craft a type of mining laser. Bam, solo questline or cave exploration. Group one.
However, needing 8,000,000 Tonnes of aluminum would take a single person a lifetime, but a 5,000 player group could get it done with relative ease. Group twelve.
30 player instanced "raid" combat for rare blueprint. Group five.

Once this economy is established, SC takes the same design for stations. Based on how many players they would want to be able to control a station or base, they can scale it up or down.

For base protection and combat: once a base/station is established, then a group of the already established number of people should be able to protect it.
For example - 5 people make a planetside homestead - 5 people should be able to defend it (or more likely it's not worth the time investment for a larger group to destroy it)
1,000 people make a Player Owned Station - it should take 1,000 people to defend it (assuming SC can even get to a 1,000 congruent players)

This is surprisingly easy to do - we'll use a token system.

A guild or org or group or whatever gets 1 (and exactly 1) token to spend each week and that token gives a group a "war declaration" on one other group.
For example - 50 players - Group Six orgs can war-dec on other Group Six orgs or up - Never Down. At which point they will be able to see the opposing org's invulnerability/shield timer.

The base/station owners will have a daily timer that makes the POS vulnerable for 26 minutes every day, but they can choose to push the timer to the next day and add 26 more minutes to the vulnerability window, up to a maximum of 6 times (so at least once a week the enemy orgs get 182minutes of known vulnerability time.) (The enemy players can also see this timer and whether or not it was pushed.)

I know I took a lot of words to write this, but simply:
(TLDR)
#1 - Teams of the same size fight over one thing.
#2 - Bases/Stations have 182minutes of vulnerability per week, that both sides can see.
#3 - ..?
#4 - Profit

At first, it sounded like SWTOR did it with Planet Control. Guilds competed for weekly points per planet, the most active with best numbers won it. In Amazon's New World, the PVP events were always the same people per faction fight IF you managed to contest it at all, which took at least two hours of pvp stuff per day.

I fear for this Space Station feature with our currently 3 people Star Citizen Org.

star citizen havent thought about this at all

CIG arent gamers, they havent played rust.... i gaurantee they wont implement bases, cos they dont understand games, heck i dont even think THEY PLAY their own game

why do you care as i hold conversations with your avengers in discord and they say they want nothing to do with stations... it just locks you down and the many other excuses they gave. they claim they want to be the raiders not the raidees. this makes sense for a PVP org to have nothing to do with them!!!! it makes sense to me that only the industrial corps will need a place for valuables.

all you need is an NPC base to launch from and unleash your assault on your industrial targets.

i think the system would be great for a tier 1 system. let them add it then figure it out later

If we have multiple shards then what happens if someone builds a base on one and another person is on another shard at the same place and the same with raiding. Are bases on all shards at the same time and can be raided on one while the owner org is on another just chilling. Or do we just have One big shard for all players until 1.0. Otherwise this doesn’t make sense kn my head. Or we have all bases with indistructable shields on the shards where nobody of the org is online 🫨

numbers advantage aside, if your Org has won the resources for the week they will have a higher chance to win the next time, with each time being more likely to win the next ?

unless opposing Orgs have guild alliance that give Bonus in a power triangle way, so that they have an advantage over the ruling org ?

The 3h timer every day where the base is vulnerable but also most members are online to defend it sounds like the way to go for CIG. Makes spying on other to find that timewindow also interesting and a needed preparation so that people can’t just raid anyone they randomly come across. I really hope DSM will be ready and working for 1.0, but before that I don’t know it’s supposed to work with the normal ground bases that we will get earlier

I think most people (with intelligence) were thinking this could only work if they realize dynamic meshing and everything is actually single shard.

To be fair (heh) this is a game in which strength in numbers is going to be very real. I honestly can't see that building a space station is going to be something achievable for any group that isn't really large and spanning timezones.

As someone who has played games like this before, vulnerability timers are not the way to go as it results in timezone tanking.

I am willing to give their network siege system a chance, and there will be growing pains for any kind of base building system in the game, just like in EVE. I think they should do something EVE and other MMO games with similar systems don't do though: legitimacy. An org that runs a base that is friendly, that gets good traffic and commerce and harbors few/no criminals or stolen goods gets more 'legitimacy' making it harder/impossible to attack, while orgs that run their own hidey holes for criminals and smuggling makes it easier/cheaper to wardec, if not outright lable the base as a pirate site, giving it anarchy rules for anyone with enough firepower to come along and blow it up and take its stuff.

In terms of player scale, this will of course be an issue, but that is an issue for CIG and players to come to terms with when we get there. EVE once upon a time would easily crash when there were 200+ people in a battle, granted I don't think Star Citizen could implement ti-di, but they might not have to since its not being made on stackless python from 2003

Conan Exiles has raid times set by the server. Maybe that would work here?

No problem, 15 20 years down the line when they do not deliver 1.0 it's going to be fine.

We have to wake up, this game is not about the game, it's about selling ships so robberts and Sandy can have more mansions.

All discussion is conjecture sourced from a citizencon fake news panel. This was intended to hype the "just imagine" players for an upcoming ship sale. None of the specifications presented should be taken seriously.

Master Modes has effectively made SC suck. The game play I say of SQ 42 reminded me of the Halo game at Dave and Busters.

shielding is global because winners should be able to kick insects from all shards, to make their own base spread on planet & moons.
What if the best won shields on about all shards, then goes to TEST shard, and can't remove their base because it's shielded too, cause they "won" the weekly shields on TEST shard ?
as a reminder, if i place a base "on THAT small island" on shard 030, this place is designated as "occupied" on all shards, to avoid superpostion once single shard come.
So yeah, their system have a logic.

the biggest org and there" totally distinct not affiliated buddies" will get all the shields making them impossible to defeat. i have played games with similar a system and got disappointed when i figured out it the top guilds where the same org discussing on coms.

I just think this type of gameplay is strictly for very large orgs. Just to add, to build a space station and large base is probably going to take a long time and a ton of resources to do if CIG doesn't make this pay to win and is only achievable by grinding out all the time sinks to do. A small org may take years to get to the point of a space station if that is the intention of this specific game loop. Now with that said a very large org will have players from all timezones vs a small one with most members from local timezones. Then again we'll only know until it's in game, I tend to stop focusing on speculation from CIG until we actually have it in hand.

The biggest problem with the current comm relay system is that they never come back online without player intervention. The relays either need to have an auto-restart feature or else trigger a police response to re-activate them if they've been down too long. Additionally, player bases should have the option of building and maintaining their own comm relays along with static defenses.

I hate the dead mans switch change. If they want real persistance then let people use stolen ships and even keep them at grimhex or lowsec player bases.

Planetside 2 had way more than 700 people in an instance

Hey, hey, hey. Meercatone here, we are Test Squadron, and we have zero relation to EVE’s Test Alliance. We may have an overlap of some members but we are in no way associated with that detritus. We are Test Squad, and anyone fearing our imminent takeover are mistaken… have you seen our streams? We’re inebriated more often than not so the only takeovers you need to worry about is the tram back to the habs from gloc bar… Our aurorahs will blot Out the sun too, so any sun tanning will be out
Of the question

CIG only works by a picture-book approach. Taking what they imagine or read somewhere, without taking the reality of things into consideration. ... It feels like CIG only employs artists and programmers, but no gamers.

You seem to be forgetting dynamic server meshing, remember the demo? where we had 3 servers for 3 parts of the same hallway, with each person being able to interact with people on different servers. The limitation will be how much computers can render on screen, where you might be looking at 50 severs worth of players.

They should de-centralize the shield system, and have base systems have a "cooldown" period of 6-8 hours, maybe more, maybe less, which could be set per org. That window gives ample time for attackers to blow something up, while letting defenders set a defense window.

Single shard should be the only thing considered for this. If a system needs to be gated to avoid overloading, so be it.

StarTrek mobile game implementation of guild fights is actually good since it has a week schedule depending on location. Basically there is a limited window during the week you can attack or defend each location...

Maybe this could work if they have a secondary localized shield. The localized base shield takes a lot of power (so has to be fed resources), and the duty cycle only allows for 21 hours on, and 3 hours off. It could be bombed or otherwise taken down, but would require multiple runs. It could be done, but it would be expensive and time consuming, making it impractical to assault small bases outside their downcycle.

The orbital shield system could then add an additional level of defense. Even if you attack during the downcycle of the localized shield, you have to take out the orbital shield first. And attacking while it's up would require multiple stages and be even more resource intensive. I think something like this could maintain CIG's King of the Hill gameplay goals, while also allowing small orgs to exist and defend their bases during daily windows.

CIG either has not thought this through at all with very little concept of how this will work... OR... they chose to not communicate details to the community on how this will work because its all subject to change or something.. The whole thing seems super unrealistic and seems like it is content for the top 1% of insanely dedicated players who play 80+ hours a week in a 1000+ member org that has members across the time zones/globe.

This station stuff seems like it could be content that comes SOOOOO far down the road. Why in the world is this now the priority feature for Star Citizen 1.0.. They need to cut this stupid base feature for now and focus on getting a playable game with their already promised and announced features....

Wow. Irony is A1s complaints here are almost identical to small group, solo complaints about forced PvP when they want to do trade, salvage and other non-combat professions. Maybe he will take the fact he's on the other side of the issue now to get some perspective and sympathy for the people that don't want rampant piracy and forced PvP when they are just playing to relax after a long day of work.

This dude is mad he doesn't have enough friends. Lol. System control is always about having the big groups that can hold! Get used to it. Small part time gamers are not meant to be able to control a system and shit. Thats why its alliance end game play! You small groups can live in safe space. Leave the null sec to the major alliances. Or you could just join one. Lol

Maybe I'm just not enough of a "team player" sort, but I can't imagine anyone who wants to play this game and see the whole universe, being okay with just sitting around defending a station for n hours at a time, solely because they're in an org. If it ends up playing the way it's been described, I'd imagine an awful lot of people are going to leave the org life behind, and go back to being solo players. This is the same sort of assumption of desire that people expressed when the cargo refactor was still unreleased. They talked about it like there would be entire classes of people who would happily just sit there stacking boxes for other players all day. No, it's like you said about your wife and kids. Everybody only has so much time to play in any given day, and burning most (or all) of that time doing busywork, or camping one station to defend it from enemies........just isn't appealing, to a huge number of people.

My worry is that it will be too cheap to attack. That way we can attack for the sake of attacking rather than making the attack a strategic decision. The tier 3 warranty makes it free to attack, so they’ll need to remove those upper tier warranties for this to even work, and base defenses must be OP as fuck - even with blades.

This base system is going to have the Rust problem, no one is going to sleep as soon they go to sleep someopne is going to take your shit lol