What is Carnism? Dr. Melanie Joy Interview [PBN Podcast Episode 65]

If you can get people to believe in absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities" Voltaire Got milk? Got beef? Incredible, edible egg? Marketing madness resulting in diseases in a society going mad.

Been vegan 💯 6💪🏾 YEAR'S I've heard all the bullshit exscuses.

Plants are so delicious. If anyone had told 20years ago that I will become a vegan, I would have told them, that were crazy. I became a vegetarian 15 years ago, then a vegan and became a strictly whole plant base eater. In my journey, I reversed diabetes, high blood pressure, gastritis, chronic constipation, acid reflux and hemorrhoids among many others nuisances. Also lost 90 pounds, and work out every day. At 65 I could run circles around most people half my age. I took medications for 10years, up to 12 pills a day. Last time I took medications was in February 2007. Also I have learned about what the meat and dairy industry are doing to us as individuals, society as a whole, animals and the planet. I don't waste an opportunity to try to educate people about it, even that it becomes almost impossible when most people don't want to hear it. I appreciate when people like you take this message to the masses, may be humanity still a chance. There's no planet B.

Brilliant video. If only every human were gifted with the basic understanding and acceptance that we share the earth with animals and they are no less entitled to be here than we are. Mahatma Gandhi sums it up for me. “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

Vegan overanalyzing much? Animals eat animals. That being said, there's no need to partake in factory farming cruelty. Yes, meateaters enjoy their food choices mostly because they're used to it, but the same can be said about vegans. It's a preference and a habit just the same, whichever diet you adopt.

Hitler's vegetarianism does somewhat undermine much of the "right-wing authoritarian" argument, don't you think? I love vegetarian food as much as anyone but the whole psychological elipsis between "don't eat your puppy" and the trendy social justice hot-button issues du jour is the soup in which the little tyrants breed their moral absolutes.

Pragmatism for the win.

My dad got prostate cancer form dairy and I researched and found out dairy meat and processed foods where all an issue that feeds or causes cancer heart disease diabetes and all sorts of other issues. I quit pretty quick. I would still eat a pizza at one of my kids birthday party if I was starving. I learned to eat before those parties. I am morman now and found our words of wisdom written around 1830 suggested we eat grains veggies fruits and spices. Not all normans are whole food plant based. I have brought it up to some of the church people. I let them know research backs it even though its stated in the words of wisdom

Melanie rambles on for nearly an hour and says basically nothing, just plugging her book, while continuing on and on about the psychology of eating meat. It goes nowhere and could never be cited to promote veganism. Veganism is a crucial issue for the world to adopt to ultimately eliminate or reduce the horrific animal holocaust which plagues our world. Spread the word but avoid her carnism approach.

I think Dr Joy's work is incredible and so valuable and helpful. However, I disagree that every vegan must be healthy relational beings in order to spread the movement. The only thing we need to be clear about is WHY we're vegan and focus on the ethical aspect. This is something I recently realized after watching Earthling Ed and Alex O'Connor and reading the volunteer guidelines of Anonymous for the Voiceless. Did the abolitionists tiptoe around slave owners so they wouldn't hurt their feelings? We have to be clear that what we're doing to animals and the planet is WRONG. And if that makes someone feel ashamed, then it means they have a conscience and that's a good thing.

Dr. Joy, the tipping point you mentioned may arrive sooner than we think. I see Veganism proliferating all around me. That said hard core carnivores will remain so (just look at the angry arrogant foolish 70m Trump camp). They are not amenable to reason or feelings, sadly.

What an impactful and important message. Thank you Dr Joy! Yet another wonderful interview from PBN. 💜

Lucid, Important, Stimulating and INSPIRING! Thanks to both of you.

No one can make you feel shame unless you allow them to.

Vegans die younger like it or not.

Another problem is the teachings in the religious books. also, And your Mom gave you the first foods. Hard to give up the that past.

ty

plants are condiments at best. You can't replace meat with beans and you can't base your diet on grains and be healthy

It's addictive, and ingrained. I refused to eat meat as a baby. I don't eat much of it now, but it is hard to figure out yummy vegan foods. This is the problem. People are just on autopilot, doing what they are told, not researching

It amazes me how Earthling Ed's idea of using the socratic method covers so many of the points that Dr. Melany Joy talks about here. They are both like guiding stars for me as an activist. Thank you!

This is a really profound conversation with some good suggestions for practicing critical thinking, intersectionality and understanding a bit on carnism. Dr. Melanie Joy is a really fascinating person with how she's taken such incongruous human experiences and really dived into researching them and why they happen.
Going to add this to my list of "Solution-oriented Articles/Videos". Thank you!

brilliant brilliant interview../.love from colombia

I understand the context of this message and I understand that this is an important area but I also want to point out that part of the observations I have made is how this is energetically affecting individuals were unaware of the fact that it is possible and that it is happening.

People believe that the unseen is not real it’s not tangible therefore it can affect you well we know in the case of 5G that is not true but how do we translate that from eating the emotional body of these animals who are distraught ill diseased suffering with heavy emotional burdens from the maltreatment and the abuse that they are receiving?

You are an energetic being and your aura is recording everything your body is depositing everything like it was a bank account. In other words your body records absolutely everything that is happening in your world whether it’s something that you are contributing or someone else is contributing. And mentally you might not have all the data or information. Because you’re not able to see what isn’t visible to you yet you’re not conscious enough you’re not aware enough you’re not concerned enough.

Then there’s the other Elements which are extremely difficult to converse about and that is what happens when a human is consuming things like tumors and cancers this isn’t even a main stream conversation not in the vegan community or any other community that I’m aware of to date. And this is also in the byproduct of animal products. Meaning you will be able to most likely test for these things in the lab and find that they are there and they could not be eradicated through pasteurization.
Then there’s the conversation about incompatible DNA these are not common conversations as a matter fact are almost nonexistent. Now I am a health psychic and the information that I am given in regards to a persons well-being includes all of the above that I have mentioned here and I would love to hear people talk about this I would like to see more attention focused on these matters and that means a collaboration with people who are ready doing something similar but using that information to collect data in different ways but why not call them why not ask them to help verify if these things are in fact a real issue and if they are affecting us how can we find out how can we work together and how can we share that information with everyone regardless of where they are at this moment in their dietary practices because I think that honestly the truth is the only thing that will set us free but it Hass to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth

This is not about guilt, shaming or scaring
this is about the raw truth
what are the ramifications

you are not just a physical being
youre mind body and spirit

we need to know

I really think that this additional information will tip the scales because people want to know they’re fascinated by information particularly information that is not readily available and isn’t actually being looked at but it is having a greater effect on the human physiology more than I can even imagine

So then what is the psychology between an individual who is consuming animals an animal byproducts and at the other end of the spectrum what is the psychology of an individual who is not? This is taking the person and their personality out of the equation and actually looking at scientific proof and data that supports what is really happening on a subconscious level that that individual isn’t even aware of these are all areas of interest in my personal opinion and I do feel like we all on some level really want to know
we wanna know what we Do not know

maybe that’s exactly why humans have a pension for information. Because clearly the truth exists regardless of whether or not a person is aware of it

So what people are looking for is consistency in the data collection so when there are these studies they’re looking for a consistent measure of similarity or accuracy meaning X amount of people had this reaction and Exemouth of people had this reaction one was a placebo one was not and by the way wouldn’t happy assassinating study is to have a restaurant that is Temperly set up that serves only vegan fair that does not advertise that it is serving vegan fair and be like a candid camera Series
Documenting the reaction of people while they’re in a moment of conception watching their body language their facial expressions to conversation the way that they leave the restaurant almost to change in their energetics selves and how they are physically translating the experience without even being aware that they’re being watched or than anything is even different

Yes it is a form of deceiving someone but at the same token how will we ever know honestly what it’s like because everyone feels this obligation to inform everyone of everything and I think some of this comes from our lifestyle with social media we believe that we don’t have the right to try things and yet back when I was growing up there was that candid camera or there was the secret millionaire and people love these shows why because they get to find out the truth so we go back to the truth is being more important than anything else
Not because it’s going to decide for someone what they should and shouldn’t do it’s a person has fact over fiction
And they get to determine what the outcome will be based on the decisions that they will make with their own free will

There are more vegan chefs Who are unknown unrecognizable you could very easily contribute to a program like that and it really wouldn’t take much effort to set it up in the public could funded or the vegan community to find it by contributing small amounts of money to be able to put this project together and see it to fruition I think it’s a phenomenal idea thank you spirit for bringing that to my attention

In addition to everything that was mentioned here not only in the video but in my comment, I think it’s super important that people stop calling at me in a song or a vegan movement because the moment people hear that they are automatically triggered they don’t even really understand it or know what it is they have an idea and it’s completely an opposition of their current belief system and lifestyle.

It should really be about the animal movement honestly or the planet movement or less just Collett the earth movement
Terra truth
Gaia Truth
Divine Truth

Call it whatever you like but I do think that vegan labels have put mud on her face and that’s because of all the bad press around it all of the emotional triggers and traumas or people have been militant and have been coming after people gilding and shaming pointing fingers and blaming and yet they all walk that path before they got to that point we just need to encourage people to do better because they know better and maybe they don’t want all the facts because they resist them knowing how painful it will be to conceive it knowing that they participated in that and didn’t educate themselves and how about the emotional trauma that they had against the parents who raised them to believe that that was the natural way of living
And they Now begin to internalize and attack themselves for all the decisions they made based on lies and false beliefs based on culture to break that down it’s cult you are
I went through that process myself I’d beat myself up so hard in the beginning of my journey 15 years ago it makes sense that I would take that out on other people I was trying to offload I was trying to dump I was trying to excavate and get rid of all of this pain and unfortunately I was using it to harm other people because I was hurting I don’t do that much anymore I will be very blunt and honest but I very rarely come after someone because they’re different although the desperation is there to make a difference to wake people up to open their eyes to the truth maybe if they saw they would be traumatized into changing? Kind of like when a person is traumatized into changing their entire lifestyle because they receive a diagnosis that is terminal? I think a lot of wrong thinking goes on and I think most of us are really not qualified to think and we are definitely stick very heavily in our dogmas our beliefs and those are always subject to change as we start to expand as individuals I think we all need to come to the same page and a lovely circle that support one another like the doctor says and try to compassionately lovingly and kindly show people a better way and I think that’s why a lot of these channels who are showing people how to live A better more rewarding life is encouraging more people to take that leap of faith because they have someone here who is supporting them and providing them with information as well as recipes and how to’s
They can’t imagine in their mind which is another problem that I had in the beginning I would literally be crying over a bowl of vegetable broth end cooked veg
But of course there’s so many options today that there weren’t when I began my journey
I literally thought OK I made this commitment and I can’t turn back because like she said I cannot on see what I have already seen and it broke my heart I was literally bleeding from my heart I was having nightmares I was very angry I was very depressed and I was feeling very guilty very ashamed and also hopeless because I really didn’t know how to make this transition
I just knew that it had to be made

ironically looking back my reaction made things much much worse than they actually were and I kind of chuckled to myself because it really wasn’t that difficult it was just my thinking and my feeling around it that made it much harder than it had to be

Once again we are definitely seeing a difference in the world today thankfully so I think taking a moment for gratitude rather than looking at it as a movement to just be grateful for all the people who have become aware conscious and willing to be the change in the world that we all wish to see
It’s super important

See you’re talking about destroying something and creating something that is reminiscent of the horrors that are actually happening and even though it obtains a goal and you talk about it being your side that is where the problem is you’re causing division there should be no sides
I personally do not support those productions of making fake this fake that because it saves animals I don’t I think it’s gross I think it’s on natural I also believe it’s unhealthy and I don’t think that you’re looking at it from that aspect but I do think if you start to take a closer look as to what the ramifications are consuming that that you’re basically selling out the humans for the animals and that’s not OK either this Hass to be a win-win situation for everyone unfortunately there are no shortcuts and are no easy way out you must go through it you must do the right thing and you cannot try to put a Band-Aid on something and that is essentially what you are recommending what you were suggesting here in this video and the price that you pay for the division Igetting people on your side is where people don’t wanna join your bandwagon because now they think you have an agenda and it isn’t in favor of everyone


When you talk about flash versus the sentient being it cannot be done flash is not healthy for you I mean you’re looking past all the important information about what flash does to the body and what it represents if it reminds people of the animal it’s triggering their emotional traumas and there is no way around that you cannot except that to be OK knowing that this practice came from thousands of years of animal abuse the animal genocide itself that we know today needless to say it is unnatural I am promise you it is unhealthy and it is completely taking people away from The truth by asking them to take on a practice that was lab created in order to not participate in the horrors that have been going on but you’re eliminating all the other important information and not taking those things into consideration either so yes I am one of those people that is completely against it we are going back to the way things should have always been our ancestors did not consume many animals it was considered a luxury and those people who were able to afford it died early ages and with horrible illnesses and discomfort before they ever left this planet the compromising of their quality of life all of that was Present even then so we don’t want to white wash the situation honestly it isn’t helping anyone cope transition or improve their health and overall that is what we’re supposed to be doing we’re supposed to be improving our well-being with being mindful and conscious of the animals well-being to

Honestly there are so many different components to this so-called movement that the central part of revolve around health

You cannot exclude that you cannot substitute that and hear you’re saying in a very subtle way that this is not intended for vegans but in fact for non-vegans which is a lack of consideration for that individual‘s well-being also this is a problem because now you’ve made a trade offer compromise that takes one sentient being into consideration and not considering the other so long is the goal or the objective is met this is a problem
🔥🤍🔥

I love it that you said that was your favorite books. Keep up the good work.

Wow, I love her. She simultaneously explains 2 things I find perplexing: 1. why animal products seem like a fanatical religion, and 2. how the moral superiority of some vegans hurts veganism. On top of that, she validates something I've needed to do since long before going vegan: the need to limit exposure to debilitating information, however true. I now know much more of the suffering of animals in, for example, the dairy industry, and I'm willing to tell people if they are willing to hear, but I cannot watch footage of it if I don't want to be debilitated with depression for a long time.

What a pleasure to listen Dr. Melanie Joy ❤️

World lives on addictions; if you master how to overcome them, you will have a greater chance of convincing other people. Reviring one's brain is a long process.

She is my type of woman. :)

Seems like a vegan trying to make everyone else feel odd. World probably isn't going to be going vegan anytime soon.

A plant based diet that gave me type 2 diabetes in the first place. I now will continue to eat meat, eggs, cheese, fish, and drink milk no matter what the vegan hate trolls say, or the so called peer reviewed studies they link to, or want any vegan propaganda video says.

Dr. Joy,
It is always better to stick with what you know. The BM mention had no business in that vegan conversation, you should have said that all lives matter since you should know that BLM is a political tool for some people to manipulate certain voters. Please talk vegan and you would be a hero. Back to veganism, we should all protect the planet by protecting animals. I do not eat anything that comes from an animal because doing so is bad. I rather lose a "Friend" than contribute to the cruelty of innocent animals.

Thanks!
Ur conversation was very informative.
Respected u both.

I think some people carry on eating animals even after the horror they’ve seen etc, cos they think we are Omnivores. Even though no Omnivore would get upset, but get excited and just see a meal.

Meat 160F. Chicken 165F.

I love that she said non human animals.
We are animals too and that doesn't get pointed out enough.

The subject of shame is much more complex because people claim you are shaming them when you aren't.

Sometimes it seems that the growth of veganism generates more resistance and the battle is between which grows fastest.

People say that using questions is the way to go because it allows people to find their own answers. However, perhaps more important is what questions are asked and how they are delivered.

We need to recognise that we can't make people go vegan because, just like us, it is an action and choice for the individual. That's why education and indeed delivery of that education is most important.

One thing I do think this conversation missed is ( in the US) we are trained as children to build our status by being "better" than others. Capitalism depends on competitors trying to out "status" each other. Being a "better" vegan or better person through shaming is driven also by trying to build up your own status to built up our own ego. We are trained as childern to build ourselves up by being better than others around you. Get the better grades, have the better things, wear the more expensive clothes, be faster, cooler, prettier, more successful...

Good Conversation 👍

cell based meat would be so good for feeding cats and dogs..

Shes my hero❤❤❤

I came across a vegan channel called David Ramms and he shames and demonizes people like crazy. It’s very demoralizing and I commented once about vegans needing to be more compassionate in our communication and treating people with dignity even if they’re meat eaters and his followers wrote all these nasty replies- felt like bullying. It’s odd that some of these vegans who are about compassion can become bullies if we don’t follow exactly as they think. Compassion needs to come from all sides- thought, speech, and action..