Do CS Graduates Hate Self-Taught Programmers?

Some dickhead belittled me because i'm a self-taught programmer and he had a degree in one of the most prestigious universities in our country. His degree didn't help him at all when i punched him straight, hard, and fast. That little shit never bothered me anymore. (got into a lot of trouble though, but it was so worth it)

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So in our company education is 10% lol. 70% is experience. Experience and books are available to us all not just colleges

The bottom line is that it depends on the type of work.  If you just do front-end web development for some site, then it's probably OK to be home-schooled.   But if you want to do the back end work and some financial math magic, then you need  a heavy math/science background, then of course you have to have a degree.  I'd rather do front-end stuff but it changes too much.

From what I've heard from some who have gotten a degree for things like web development is that with that niche, it's probably better to be self-taught, as the information is changing to rapidly that the info at the university is often out of date, anyway. But, I'd imagine with tasks like larger programs a CS degree would come in handy. I've learned from people with CS degrees that it helps lay a good foundation with learning the principles of computer science, algorithms, and such.

What if you're a self-taught programmer with a degree ?
College didnt teach shit.

The only group of people I hate are CS undergrads

i am a self taught person and amen to what you said.

I got my degrees because I was a good boy and listened to my parents.

I think taking a position one way or another in the company of others is a Pandora's box of petty, pointless, pernicious angling around someone else's confidence at worst and empty headed naivety at best. To suggest that adults could discuss this openly as if all guns could fire with out an injury... Read the first sentence.

I think in the end, it’s really the job market that’s to blame.

The way the job market changes, the way that companies treat people working under them , and the way that the economy and cost of living increases has a huge effect on people who are simply trying to make a good living and have a valuable career.

For some folks who may not have gone through college yet, or may be in it for a bit but suddenly feel unmotivated, to hear that there’s a more efficient way of getting into the field of their choice without having to spend four years in school and racking up debt, they’ll take it in a heartbeat. Mostly because they just don’t want to deal with the financial cons

What I have learned from college that you CANNOT learn at freecodecamp and similar places: Business management, presentation and speech skills, human relations in administration, data base design, Network & Telecom Mgmt, calculus, organizational behavior, Bus Systems Analysis/Design.

These aren't essential to coding but they do make you a well rounded person as far as working in a professional environment.

Don't computer scientists work in the field of theoretical software development such as creating algorithms? and programmers use the various languages to code and program software? I thought these disciplines were very different despite working on similar substrate (the Computer that is). Or, is he referring to the jobs that can be fulfilled by both parties (ie programming).

CS graduates hate Programmers because Programmers won't believe that CS is a branch of Mathematics.

Self taught here, liked and subscribed

Would you pick some random kiddo with no degree or a cs graduate if you were an employer? Because that's the bottom line when you start. No one hires a John Doe with no degree. To be hireable everywhere without a degree, you would literally need a position at a company like google on your cv to merely interest employers.

Hey great video. Lol. Me being older. 38 years old. Going back for a CS degree is a tough sell.

But I would still do it if it did not require me to go back into debt.

Being debt free at the moment and taking the self tough approach for now is a better fit.

With that being said. If I got hired with a company and if they had tuition reimbursement, I would go back to further my education.

One thing for sure, you can’t stop on working in your craft and broaden your knowledge and understanding.

I didn't get my degree until 2015 and I've been programming since 1983. I'm mostly self-taught and continue to pick up new skills all the time, but the "piece of paper" got me jobs that I wouldn't have been considered for otherwise, and it also increased my yearly income by about $35k. I only wish I'd gotten the degree sooner. Then again, in the early tomid-80s, you still had to learn COBOL. :)

Very good video! Bottom line, degree or not there will always be someone who is better than you. Simple approach, continue learning from others and past projects. By the the time you are the perfect programmer, you will be dead! Enjoy the journey!

I would rather have a degree and not need it than have no degree and then need it.

Can I just point a few things out.


1. Not very many poeple these days want or have the discipline to learn coding (coding a rare skill in which degree or not Is hard to come by, companies are more into finding Skill and Experience then degree's.

2. Just because someone Is smart it has the know how to go to a university it's not the only trade in the world a rich person can be successful. In which I mean I know alot of poeple who are smart and materialists I don't see them studying computers for 4 years. Popular and clever poeple poeple who remain privallaged with knowledge or money I highly are gonna always want to be programmers. They can be doctors might be better money overall they can politicians ect. Most poeple who go to IT only do it for 2 reasons they like doing it nerdy geek types sorry I am sorry I offended someone and or for the money!

Coding Is a rare skill more than likely you have to be Intrested to want to do it not very many non geeky or nerdy poeple would actually want or take the time to study it.

Just because it's there doesn't mean everyone's gonna rush to library study coding gets a degree and leave every self taught programmer out.


The days of self taught programmers might die out but hear this. They might come a time into the future where they no longer is a high demand for expierence and skill over degrees so they might get laid off a little. But the ask yourself this you could always work for less making it cheaper to employ you? Coding when the days of robots will come out will become a more specailised skill so fewer poeple to help if robots can't do it.


It's not as simple as everyone just gonna get a degree and everything is fucked for the rest I highly doubt that for atleast another 30-100 years. There's a big demand now for skills and experience coders not necessarily expert degree coders.

I can also imagine if you just about fit the bill or were more than adequate for the coding role but most of the others have degrees they don't have to lay you as much
$$$ cheaper for them.

I know it's a weird comparison but women complain all the time they get paid less so I can't imagine a self taught programmer ways exceeding a degree holder in the salary side. But it would save a company a canny bit especially if we self taught offered for slightly lower wages .



It's not as black and white as it seems.

I will admit having a degree opens up alot of opportunity to you u might not always get as a self taught programmer. But just means higher possibilities no definites.

There lots of jobs now where dumb kids at school when I were in school are exceeding well in salary compares to those who were in top sets and went to university's/colleges.

And I'd highly recommend If you go for a job If you don't meet atleast 50% of the ideal candidate don't apply for it. It might be u haven't got a degree but let's be honest how many poeple can code regardless on if they have a degree or not? They might have something they can offer you might be the same job but for less lay might be a slighlty different role it might be something alot less than you expected but atleast you got a job out of it.

And I get the Impression as soon as your a beginner spend the next few years learnt and studying then do stuff for poeple for cheap or free like freelancing. If your a web developer for example spend a few years learning how to do shit code in HTML and use different frameworks for example then offer to do cheap or free websites for poeple build you portfolio.

Sanme for software drv offer to do stuff for free for small/large companies when you learning obviously make sure you can do it but why not do that for a few years before you start applying? Build a portfolio do stuff for nothing!

As an employer, i hire whoever seems like they can do a better job based on the interview. A degree is worthless if you don't have the skill to back it up

Programming is a skill which cannot be taught in college. It is similar to Art and music in that respect. If you can build super websites or apps then who cares about the degree. Its all about the skill.

This was weird to me.. back in 2008, I remember the general concensus was that developers were better and tended to learn quicker if they were self-taught. It makes sense that the viewpoint has flipped as CS has matured, but this was new to me.

Having a degree at young age is in many cases probably the only qualification one can come up with after having finished the formal education at college or university. The older you get the less important the degrees become as hiring managers expect to see a trail of projects you delivered, your level of experience and a proven skill set that has been well tested in the line of fire over the years. In that respect it can be understandable that a highly experienced, respected developer, with or without degree, may consider himself more senior compared to a rookie fresh from college. But then he should act in a supportive way to get the youngster up to speed rather than to look down on him (btw... "look down on somebody" never experienced that in my work environment: indication of cultural issues?).

Only recently discovered your channel, but glad you made a video on this topic.

There is definitely a rift between self taught vs formalized education. And honestly, as a degree holder myself, I am glad I got it, BUT I don’t think it’s worth it unless you have the money on hand (or have scholarships). Especially with something like coding which has more and more online resources.

But, yeah, as you said, I think the key thing is that you have the skills to write software and a continual willingness to learn and grow. :)

As someone that has been a hiring manager for the past 10 years of software engineers, Id fully agree. If you're young, get a CS degree if you can. Reason being, you give yourself so much more time to understand what avenue of programming/engineering you want to do. If you want to be a developer it's still a good idea to have a degree. I think the perfect mix is actually a bachelors with a boot camp personally. I think with a CS degree and then understanding up to date knowledge of technology, not a doubt in my mind you will land a job but that is if you can afford i.

If you're self taught, no problem. Make sure you understand the coding language you want to develop in. Most large companies will need to see a bachelors degree. Just like he said, it is unfair because there is plenty of talent out there without degrees but some companies are old school. If you want to separate yourself from other developers.... learn HTML/CSS/JS obviously, know react/redux/node.js....... AND THE BIG SEPARATOR - Get your ass on UDEMY and learn Algorithms/Data Structures. Yes, that is tough but spending literally $20 bucks to learn the one thing that most HR managers look for when hiring. Normally, learning the instrumental of algorithms and data structures take about 1-2 months. It's taught in college at 3 months but that's at a really slow pace. If you're going hard at it, learning the fundamentals take 90 days. If you're thinking you're going to be an expert with those subjects in 90 days.... That is not fact, BUT it is good enough to get your foot in the door. Someone that can do algorithms and solve problems is someone I want on my team. It's as simple as that. Even if you don't want to do that route, if you can show me a portfolio of projects and pass an assessment of basic JS questions, you'll find a home. Don't get discouraged.

I'm 30 without a computer science and I wanna teach myself

Question: Do computer science graduates hate self taught programmers?
Answer: Yes
Question: Why?
Answer: Because of Edward Snowden.

Smile please. Hehe

can someone answer me. what is the value of 4-year degree? I spent 4 years learning to code in college and most of my learning came from the Internet. Now, I doubt myself. LOL

I started developing before getting a degree, yet I'm still pursuing my education. I got my bachelor degree and now getting my masters. Getting a degree is important because programming isn't just about programming, there so many different aspects that revolve around it.

losers without a degree think they know EVERYTHING just because they mastered a framework


real software engineers with a degree KNOW how it all works on the inside - and are the ones who can code, not the ones who yell a lot and turn into code nazis

It's better to self learn all engineering fields

This reminds me of the argument between certified teachers vs. non-certified teachers who don't have degrees nor have formal training. I must admit that if a person is in the field long enough, some of those non-certified teachers could become very good and learned what they need over time. They might not have learned all of the laws, learned all of the details; had much of the rigourous method-trainings, practices and all of the direct supervision that us certified teachers went through. But, over time they still learn to teach and many things are gained through experience. Yes, having a degree and certifications would get a person a teaching job faster and would make a person more eligible for WAYYY more things; especially if they such person gets a Masters degree. But, going the experience route is still ONE way into the teaching field. And though experience and working hard, one could have a lot of great things going for themselves in this regard.

I don't understand the hatred either way. I don't have a CS degree but I wouldn't condemn having one at because knowledge is good. At the same time I wouldn't want all my practical experience condemned for want of a degree.

How exactly does a person without a programming degree get hired as a programmer? Will it have something to do with their CV? I'm curious to know since I'm considering a career path in programming.

Can you get a job by studying codecademy?

I'd say 75% of what you learn in college is not worth it (soft sciences, etc...). A degree has value, but most of that value comes from having the degree/piece of paper. Not what you learned while getting the degree.

The company that I used to work for, not having a degree gets paid lower and many people don't even know it.....how sad cause eveyone is doing the same job. For all the young people out there, please at least get a degree. Don't let tuition stay in the way get a student loan or something! 30k, 50k, 70k are literally nothing when you look at a bigger picture how you are gonna be treated at workplace for whole life. It's not about your professionalism, It is just impossible to ask the society not to discriminate. I am not sure if having a degree in different field will do you bad, but having a degree in the same field will for sure benefit a ton.

I have a CS degree. I don't look down on people who have it. I see them as the victim. We wasted 5 years at university and probably 4 years in high school learning nothing useful. That is a tragedy. These schools are not educational programs. They are prestige programs and we need to shut them down and create a new system. Almost everybody develops Stockholm Syndrome from the schooling that was done to them and that just perpetuates the cycle for the next generation of that abuse. We have to end the cycle.

What would you recommend self taught person. Who wants to learn coding, but doesn't have the money to get a higher education.

I am current study in cyber-security and i like coding. But i really don't know where to go or what i should learn next.

Degrees is just a big scam think about it

What logic would lead you to choose a candidate without a degree over one that has a degree? It makes NO sense from an HR perspective

NO INTERNET DAYS = the concentration of knowledge and wisdom were mostly can be taught from formal school
INTERNET DAYS = almost everything can be learned using google

I'm self-taught in c++. Teaching it to myself within a month including the data structures and algorithms aspects while attending Univ for a physics degree.

From my experience with a couple self-taught developers, they seem to have "holes" in their knowledge. Not just with programming, but also with soft skills and critical thinking. Face it, a degree is your base knowledge and in no way the full extent of your training. Your "real" education comes by working for companies that do software development the right way and picking up knowledge from experienced developers that help you reinforce good habits and set the bar high as far as performance. Good companies do not like to waist time and money on a developer that is not a safe bet. Having a degree increases the confidence they have in you working out. Working with experienced developers with high standards is just as important as picking the right school. My advice to self-taught developers is combine teaching yourself how to code with taking a couple classes each semester. There is an old saying, "The bigger the base, the taller the tower". Build those base skills and impress potential hiring managers with not only your coding skills, but, your ability to articulate your thoughts, and also understand the business of the client your writing the code for.